When I look at the ammo on Double Tap's website, their rounds go amazingly fast, causing me to wonder about their pressure. How badly will this ammo batter your gun? Sure, they have a high amount of stopping power, but I still wonder about damages to the firearm. Anyone experience any damage to your firearm using this ammo? Is it standard pressure?
Double Tap ammo?
- Thread starter Shrike360
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the naked prophet
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Interestingly enough, when I fired some of the Double Tap 147 grain Gold Dots at 1135 fps right next to the WWB 115 grain FMJ at about the same speed, I couldn't tell a difference in the recoil. I have chronographed the WWB before, and it was about 1180 fps. I could hear the supersonic crack from the DT ammo... don't know why there's no more recoil.
They say it's a proprietary blend of propellant, which gives a more constant pressure curve. A normal +P will give a large pressure spike at the beginning, and then drop off like normal. Apparently, the DT company uses higher pressure that doesn't spike like that, spreading out the recoil over a longer time. That's my only guess.
[edit]I should also mention that I shoot DT into ragged little holes at 7 yards which can be covered with a half dollar. Way better accuracy than WWB, which is to be expected.[/edit]
They say it's a proprietary blend of propellant, which gives a more constant pressure curve. A normal +P will give a large pressure spike at the beginning, and then drop off like normal. Apparently, the DT company uses higher pressure that doesn't spike like that, spreading out the recoil over a longer time. That's my only guess.
[edit]I should also mention that I shoot DT into ragged little holes at 7 yards which can be covered with a half dollar. Way better accuracy than WWB, which is to be expected.[/edit]
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Boston Irish
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Great stuff!
I have used their stuff in all my guns (Glock's, Sig's etc). In my opinion this is the best ammo available in 10mm. I use it religously in my Glock 29 for protection against "woodland creatures"
DT also has the best customer service around. I called once to place an order and the owner/president answered the phone! You don't get that at Walmart!
The guys over at Glock Talk love Double Tap!
Just my Irish .02
I have used their stuff in all my guns (Glock's, Sig's etc). In my opinion this is the best ammo available in 10mm. I use it religously in my Glock 29 for protection against "woodland creatures"
DT also has the best customer service around. I called once to place an order and the owner/president answered the phone! You don't get that at Walmart!
The guys over at Glock Talk love Double Tap!
Just my Irish .02
Ohen Cepel
Member
I keep wanting to try their stuff, have only heard good things. Just have never found any at a show and haven't gotten around to ordering any.
Double Tap Ammo ...
Good stuff ...
... and within SAAMI pressure specs.
DT Ammo has been around a while now and no one's ever shown that it's over-pressured. Sorry but errornet speculation masquerading as fact doesn't count.
Yeah, it's "hot." So what?
At least in 10mm AUTO, "hot" means "high-performance," which really means at or beyond the velocities of the original Norma 10mm loads. DT Ammo uses better bullets than the 10mm of the 1980s and consistently exhibits better quality control than some of the "big names."
Is it really a suprise that a smaller company might turn out high quality ammo? ProLoad did it for years, and Black Hills still does, including, among other calibers, the exclusive 5.56 77gn MK 262 Mod 1 load for the U.S. military. Ditto Georgia Arms, Corbon, and Buffalo Bore.
Here's a link, one of a number of reviews of DT Ammo out there:
http://bren-ten.com/agtman/id6.html
Good stuff ...
... and within SAAMI pressure specs.
DT Ammo has been around a while now and no one's ever shown that it's over-pressured. Sorry but errornet speculation masquerading as fact doesn't count.
Yeah, it's "hot." So what?
At least in 10mm AUTO, "hot" means "high-performance," which really means at or beyond the velocities of the original Norma 10mm loads. DT Ammo uses better bullets than the 10mm of the 1980s and consistently exhibits better quality control than some of the "big names."
Is it really a suprise that a smaller company might turn out high quality ammo? ProLoad did it for years, and Black Hills still does, including, among other calibers, the exclusive 5.56 77gn MK 262 Mod 1 load for the U.S. military. Ditto Georgia Arms, Corbon, and Buffalo Bore.
Here's a link, one of a number of reviews of DT Ammo out there:
http://bren-ten.com/agtman/id6.html
nitesite
Member
Mike McNett delved into the ammo manufacturing field (which is very competitive from a business standpoint) and shooters everywhere are grateful. It's my belief that he carefully researched blended propellants to get the correct pressure curve for each of the cartridge loadings he offers.
I'm a 10mm shooter and I have his 165-gr Gold Dot ammo in my G29 all the time. It doesn't just scream, it's as accurate as anything I have shot thru my sidearm.
I'm starting to reload for my G29 and other pistols but I firmly believe that I can never approach the quality, consistency and accuracy of his ammo. My stuff will just be for plinking. For training and carry, I'll stick with Mike's Double Tap ammunition.
I'm a 10mm shooter and I have his 165-gr Gold Dot ammo in my G29 all the time. It doesn't just scream, it's as accurate as anything I have shot thru my sidearm.
I'm starting to reload for my G29 and other pistols but I firmly believe that I can never approach the quality, consistency and accuracy of his ammo. My stuff will just be for plinking. For training and carry, I'll stick with Mike's Double Tap ammunition.
madmattmd
Member
If you want to experience true 10mm performance, get some DT ammo. The normal “factory” ammo offered by the major manufacturers is much more like .40 S&W than 10mm. The DT practice ammo is great.
I’ve used DT in both my G20 and Springfield Omega. It’s pretty stout but not punishing. Any pistol chambered for 10mm is built to withstand the higher pressures. For example, the G20 slide is even heavier than the G21 (.45ACP) slide because of the increased performance threshold.
I’ll be using DT ammo in an AMT Javelina 5” when that comes through too.
Matt
I’ve used DT in both my G20 and Springfield Omega. It’s pretty stout but not punishing. Any pistol chambered for 10mm is built to withstand the higher pressures. For example, the G20 slide is even heavier than the G21 (.45ACP) slide because of the increased performance threshold.
I’ll be using DT ammo in an AMT Javelina 5” when that comes through too.
Matt
Chupacabra
Member
DoubleTap probably makes the best self-defense on the market right now.
I've put a couple boxes of their 165grain 40S&W load through my USP compact and haven't experienced any malfunctions or excessive wear. It's a bit hotter than standard stuff, but not by that much. Everyone else downloads their stuff anyway.
I've put a couple boxes of their 165grain 40S&W load through my USP compact and haven't experienced any malfunctions or excessive wear. It's a bit hotter than standard stuff, but not by that much. Everyone else downloads their stuff anyway.
Come on guys...lets use some common sense. Yes, DT ammo is good in terms of not exploding your gun. However, if you are aware of bullet ballistics, then DT is not a good choice in some situations. the 115 gr. 9mm round that DT makes travels at over 1400fps. This is well above Speers velocity envelope. Why do you think Speer markets its +P 124 gr. round at 1220fps? This is the velocity out of a 4 inch barrel that the round performs the best at. Faster is not always better.
You are risking the bullet fragmenting badly on impact if it is going too fast. Now, I am not question the quality control of DT, but I am questioning the value of added velocity. The 124 +P gold dot bullet that the NYPD and DT use works great at 1220 fps. Why push it so much faster? There is no added advantage if you shot falls apart in the target and fails to expand.
You are risking the bullet fragmenting badly on impact if it is going too fast. Now, I am not question the quality control of DT, but I am questioning the value of added velocity. The 124 +P gold dot bullet that the NYPD and DT use works great at 1220 fps. Why push it so much faster? There is no added advantage if you shot falls apart in the target and fails to expand.
As with any ammunition you'd be well advised to look at ballistic tests and see if it performs as you would like for it to. While their 165gr gold dot out of 10mm runs much much faster than speer would load it to in .40, it also performs much better than it does at .40 velocities. Fragmentation can be a problem with the light loads and doubletap is quite up front about it, some people want fragmentation though. Be an educated consumer.
Patton21, another thing you need to take into account is barrel length. My 9mm is a Kel-Tec P-11 (3.1" barrel). I have found that the DT rounds often duplicate the velocities of the Speer loads in much shorter barrels, like what I carry. Also, the Gold Dot is a bonded bullet, and probably has a pretty large window.
Agreed, a keltec p11 is the ideal platform to use a DT 9mm cartridge out of. Im sure the recoil is nasty though. And you are right, the gold dot does have a wide tolerance, but still fragments. The added velocity reduces effectiveness according to gel tests done at stoppingpower.net
Chupacabra
Member
Is there something fundamentally different (besides size) between Speer's 124g 9mm and 125g 357magnum GoldDot bullets?
Speer advertises their magnum load at 1450fps. If the bullet works as designed at that speed, then I don't really see why a DoubleTap load using a 124g 9mm bullet would fragment at 1300fps.
Speer advertises their magnum load at 1450fps. If the bullet works as designed at that speed, then I don't really see why a DoubleTap load using a 124g 9mm bullet would fragment at 1300fps.
You can say the same about the 10mm and the .40 S&W. In that little group you started, you could also add the .357 Sig. 9mm, .357 Sig and Magnum, all use a .355-.357 diameter bullet. 10mm and .40 S&W use .400 diameter bullets. For those size bullets, Double Tap's speed really shouldn't make a difference on expansion and fragmentation.
Patton21 said:
Best to use some stiffer Wolff springs with a P-11 and Double Tap. My P-11 primarily serves as a trigger practice gun for my carry P-40. I load that with DT 155gr Gold Dots and use 22lb Wolff springs and a Hogue Handall, Jr. - not pleasant to shoot at all.
Speer pushes its 155gr Gold Dot to 1175fps out of a 4.0" barrel in its factory load. DT pushes this same bullet to 1200fps in a 3.5" barrel. My P-40 uses a 3.3" barrel, so I would guess it is dead in the center of its velocity window. Even if it were higher, the window is a range, and my guess is the range is not small due to the bonded construction. I am quite comfortable it will do what I need it to do in a self-defense shooting.
RustyShackelford
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Leery of exotic loads/brands...
I'm not to sure of the "Double Tap" rounds. I'll look into it but I'm not real big on high pressure/powerful loads that are not proven/well known.
I bought some .38spl ExtremeShock rounds and was not thrilled when I saw the dull worn color of the brass cases.
When I bought Magsafe loads the brass had a bright shine.
Rusty
I'm not to sure of the "Double Tap" rounds. I'll look into it but I'm not real big on high pressure/powerful loads that are not proven/well known.
I bought some .38spl ExtremeShock rounds and was not thrilled when I saw the dull worn color of the brass cases.
When I bought Magsafe loads the brass had a bright shine.
Rusty
Rusty, most of their stuff isn't exotic; just standard ammo using mainstream JHP bullet construction (Gold Dot, Golden Saber, etc.) loaded near/at the limit. Mr. McNett's company has quite a cult following on the gun forums, and if his stuff wasn't good, it would certainly be talked about immediately.
Diamondback6
Member
He also has a large following among some law-enforcement and the big names in weaponcraft, including one of the more prominent "names" registered here. (I'll leave it to that author to identify himself if he so chooses, but you'd recognize his name if you saw it.) While I personally favor old-school Hydra-Shoks, I would be fully prepared to use DoubleTap if I couldn't get the Federal stuff. (The only reason I usually stick with maintaining a stockpile of Speer-loaded Gold Dots is they're what a majority of Washington state's LE agencies use, so I can defuse any possible "dangerous load" arguments if I ever gotta hash it out in court.)
Do you have any links to testing done? I ask because ive read where there was problems with the petals folding up at DTs 10mm velocity(golddots). A guy on another forum (Turbonatr 10mmtalk.com) experienced the same thing shooting wild dogs. I know Mcnett has said Speer stated the Golddots are within that velocity range but im curious if an independent has tested. Ammolab had done some testing and reading from a post on Warriortalk i get the same feeling, his testing had the same problem with the Golddots. His site is no longer ,due to a lawsuit and i cant get any info on his testing. He did say the silvertips performed better than Golddots when pushed at 10mm velocity.
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