double tapping

[UWstudent]

hey all

i've been shooting for many years, basically just basic shooting.. load up the guns in the bags, go to range, shoot targets. i never really got elaborate while at the range but i've emptied some mags while doing speed shooting and got pretty good at it.

well, im going to try to double tap next week when i go to the range. are there any forms to use while doing double taps? strategies or tactics? (name of this thread ) i have both 9mm and .45 . how do you handle them differently? also, if somebody could articulate the use of double tapping in what situations.. basically everything or anythinga bout double tapping...
thanks!

 

[Akira13]

Trigger control is important, as always. Make sure to reset it properly, and use firm squeezes so the gun won't move around too much. And from what I gather, double-taps are typically meant for situations where you're close enough to confidently aim for the head without fear of missing, and sending a stray bullet somewhere.

 

[Jeff White]

There are usually two methods taught to fire double taps.

The controlled pair is fired with a separate sight picture for each round. It only needs to be a flash sight picture, but you need to put the sights back on target for each round.

The hammer is two rounds fired as fast as you can press the trigger with one sight picture. In other words, You sight on the target, press the trigger, let it out to reset and press again, without placing the sights back on target.

HTH

Jeff

 

[Mannlicher]

I think you should wear one of those drop down thigh holsters, dress in black, and make sure you have a laser mounted on your pistol, maybe even a Shurfire Flashlight. A LBV with extra mags is a nice touch.

 

[JMusic]

With proper body position the Hammer is very accurate. Problem with firing under stress is you "may" forget all about aiming. Practice position shooting, in my opinion it is the most practical.
Jim

 

[USMC Tanker]

What Jeff White said is right on the money. There is also the "Failure-To-Stop Drill". This is used when you deliver a controlled pair or a hammer to the target and it fails to neutralize the situation. It is also commonly referred to as "two in the chest, one in the head". Military training says to "double tap" everything. Never assume that "one well aimed shot" will neutralize the situation...that second shot is insurance. AND OF COURSE, there's always the failure-to-stop drill if necessary!

Mannlicher, what's wrong with learning/practicing good defensive/offensive tactics?

 

[GoBrush]

Jeff has done a good job starting you out. Here our a couple other thoughts. I train for double taps if you are training against a single attacker. If you our faced with multiple attackers in most not all situations I would prefer quick center of target shots on all attackers rather that trying to double tap all targets it simply takes to much time. The key is if you are using deadly force on one attacker or two all deadly force rules still apply. In any kind of self defense senerio there is not always one correct answer because every situation is different but hopefully this gives you another thought on the subject.

 

[Bobo]

Here's Phil Strader doing a draw, double-tap, reload, double-tap.
This is what we've been calling "hammer".

Anyone can do it - just takes a tiny bit of practice.

http://www.andersonshooting.com/images/video/natsvid/strader2r2.mpg

 

[UWstudent]

thats gonna take me years to do that.. wow
im gonna practice now

everyone should watch that short clip from the last post

 

[LiquidTension]

LOL I can't even reload that fast in video games haha.

 

[1911 guy]

Recoil control

The most important thing, in my opinion, is to find the position that gives you accuracy and recoil control. One without the other is marginal at best. I use the true double-tap for anything longer than 10 yards, unsighted for closer.

 

[John Hicks]

I was doing (albeit slowly) doulbe taps at my CCW class. The instructor immediately told me that might not be the best way (even though it is taught in the military). He was stressing sustained rapid fire until the target was no longer present. While they did not teach edge-and-face drills in the class (beginner level CCW), he told me to practice firing as much as I could until the target re-edged (on my own time, of course).

Of course, to practice that, you need a range that has edge-face mechanisms on the target carriers. Just another suggestion.

Now having said that, double taps are fun to try and do well while plinking at the range. It definitely teaches you precise trigger control. Sadly I have definitely not come close to mastering that yet.

happy shooting,
jh

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Until you have built up your skills to where you have a solid position and the gun returns to the same position consistently after recoil, you are wasting your time practicing hammers or controlled pairs. You are more likely to develop bad habits trying to push an imperfect position fast.

Just go slow and work on getting a solid position with the gun where you can watch the front sight recoil straight back and up a little and then return to the same position it was in prior to pulling the trigger. When you have that down, you are ready to work on shooting rapidly.

For rapid fire, you will want to emphasize trigger control. Do not release the trigger entirely, release it just enough to allow the trigger to reset.

 

[Owen]

Mr. Strader was probably shooting controlled pairs, not hammers.

IPSC + unaimed fire <> success

 

[strambo]

Like most things no "one way" is better. Double taps (hammers) aren't better than controlled pairs, aren't better than one per target and repeat, aren't better than rapid fire until down.

Practice many different methods and apply the appropriate one to the situation at hand.

For practicing firing 2 shots, start out with controlled pairs. Set an accuracy standard (say, within a 4-6 inch circle at 7 yards) and shoot as fast as you can keep both rounds in that circle. When you get pretty good at that speed...speed it up until the second shot starts to push out of the 6" circle. Practice at this new faster speed until they tighten up again. Before you start make sure you have a good position as another poster said. If your position is good, you never really align your sights...you just verify that they are on target and make a small adjustment if necessary.

 

[MDG1976]

I think you should wear one of those drop down thigh holsters, dress in black, and make sure you have a laser mounted on your pistol, maybe even a Shurfire Flashlight. A LBV with extra mags is a nice touch.

Don't forget your Ninja'ed out AR, balaclava and your Clancy novel.

 

[LightningJoe]

Unless your opponent is wearing an enemy uniform and it can reasonably be expected that there are only guys wearing the same uniform over in his general direction, then the importance of hitting your target is outweighed by the importance of not missing. Bullets always hit something. There are no clean misses. Rather, there are negligent hits. Every bullet you fire has your signature on it. Multiple shots with the same sight picture sounds dangerous in the worst possible way. At best, it resembles a circus act. In a self-defense encounter, your backstop is likely to be some inhabited structure or other. I hope anybody defending himself with a firearm in my vicinity will leave the trick shooting at the range.

 

[jeepmor]

Double taps

I like that drill, wow, was that guy fast or what?


The double taps were developed by the military because you miss 50% of the time, so shoot twice.

I'm going to try some of these suggestions this week. I have always planned on a double tap should I encounter a need for firing my weapon in defense. Mostly based on the 50% miss theory of the military.

I had a colleague from the military that said he used to get yelled at by the instructors all the time for shooting the targets heads first instead of the center of mass. He refused to comply with the training on this point for one reason. People trying to take over nuclear subs are commando, navy seal types with lots of training, and some sort of protection on their center of mass, so why bother chinking a new vest, go for the face.

He was the expert marksmen, not me, so I'm taking his advice should navy seal types decide to hijack my nuclear homebrew stash in the middle of the night....haha

 

[Matthew Temkin]

hey all

i've been shooting for many years, basically just basic shooting.. load up the guns in the bags, go to range, shoot targets. i never really got elaborate while at the range but i've emptied some mags while doing speed shooting and got pretty good at it.

well, im going to try to double tap next week when i go to the range. are there any forms to use while doing double taps? strategies or tactics? (name of this thread ) i have both 9mm and .45 . how do you handle them differently? also, if somebody could articulate the use of double tapping in what situations.. basically everything or anythinga bout double tapping...
thanks!

I learned how to double tap from Rex Applegate himself.
The secret?
Just pull the trigger as fast as possible and let nature take it's course.

 

[Ankeny]

Many of the IPSC hot rock split monsters shoot controlled pairs at warp drive by simply slapping the ever living snot out of the trigger. After enough rounds down range, splits in the low teens are no big whoop, but other than wow factor they really aren't worth a whole lot.

In the world of competition shooting, fast splits are a result of a neutral grip in combination with manipulating the trigger the same speed in, same speed out in time with the gun.

 

[BruceB]

The shooting technique CHANGES according to the distance involved...or, at least it SHOULD.

I carry a handgun almost all the time. Since my major concern is an up-close-and-personal situation, as in less than five FEET ("Gimme yer wallet!") I do much of my practice at arm's length from targets. This business of "getting the correct position" and other theoretical devices are NONSENSE at close range. The classic "seven yards" for practice is unrealistically excessive.

I'm 63 years old, and stand a very good chance of being taken off my feet by a 20-year-old man. So...I practice for that, too. I fire from positions which include lying on my back and firing over my feet, up into the target at very close range. I fire from flat on my back, over my head (head toward target, gun upside down) into the target immediately above me. I practice accessing the gun while LYING on it, on the ground, and also drawing from lying on my other side on the ground. I do some practice for close range on my feet by actually striking the target with my weak hand while stepping away as I draw.

In my practice, I shoot FAST! My intent is to fire to slide-lock and do a fast reload. If multiple attackers are present, each one gets a round, then repeat as necessary...and I practice that, too. In the hit-and-step-back drill, as distance increases so does my reliance on the sights, as the technique answers to the situation. I usually get slidelock as I get about ten feet from the target, and the target has LOTS of holes.

I think it's a mistake to get too committed to certain drills or numbers of rounds. The idea is to survive, and more rounds IN the opponent make one's odds much better. At super-close "social" ranges, under five feet, misses are rather unlikely. I should add that I also DO train for longer-range encounters, out to and including 100 yards with carry pistols, but the overwhelming likelihood still remains a close-range assault or robbery.

I may be a gray-haired ol' fart, but I intend to be the MEANEST ol' fart in the valley....and an easy mark for NOBODY.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

This business of "getting the correct position" and other theoretical devices are NONSENSE at close range.

The idea of training is to train yourself to do things the right way. If you aren't developing good habits (like a solid grip that allows the gun to return to the same place every time after recoil - aka a "solid position") then you aren't doing yourself much good by learning to execute sloppy habits quickly.

Learning to shoot from different positions is certainly a good idea as is learning about time/distance; but you have to walk before you can run and a guy who is asking about "double-tapping" is neither walking nor running.

 

[chopinbloc]

first off, i have a minor semantical issue with the term "double tapping." this term is also used to describe the practice of coming back to previously secured enemy personnel and placing another round in them. it is highly illegal even for the military. i feel it is more accurate and less likely to get you in legal trouble to use terms that better describe what you are actually doing - such as "controlled pair."

The double taps were developed by the military because you miss 50% of the time, so shoot twice.

I'm going to try some of these suggestions this week. I have always planned on a double tap should I encounter a need for firing my weapon in defense. Mostly based on the 50% miss theory of the military.

sorry, but no. controlled pairs are used because two holes are more likely to down the man who is trying to kill you and down him quickly. controlled pairs are the doctrine for both rifle and pistol at close range. you are also expected to hit with BOTH rounds. i should hope you apply the same standard to your training as an armed civilian. while it civilian casualties are regrettable and doubtlessly rack a soldier or marine with guilt for the rest of his life, they are an unfortunate and unavoidable facet of battle. what i'm saying is that even though a soldier or marine is unlikely to be charged with the death of a civilian due to indiscretion in his fire at a legitimate target, he is still expected to HIT with every round fired. you, however could find yourself in prison or financially ruined for an overpenetrative shot, let alone a miss. for myself, i will NOT miss. it is unacceptable. i will not fire unless i am confident that each round will strike the target. does this mean i expect to slowly and methodically place individual rounds on an assailant while he kindly and patiently stands still to receive his dose of lead? of course not. i train for controlled pairs at close range, "hammer" type drills from retention at contact range and accurate, single shots at longer ranges.

for the original question: attend a class from a reputable instructor. in the mean time, practice trigger control and "flash sight picture" in addition to control of the pistol. the dichotomy of accurate, fast shooting is that you have to control the recoil in order to get back on target quickly but you cannot anticipate the recoil or you will jerk the trigger and throw your shot wide. there is alot to this subject and you're best off seeking professional instruction.