No 'Double-taps' at the range?

[priv8ter]

I was at this gun range in Connecticut the other day, and while reading their rules and signing their waiver forms, I saw that one of their rules was no rapid fire.

Now, the ranges I shoot at in Washington have that rule also, and what they don't want to here is someone emptying a magazine into the sealing because they can't control the recoil. But, double-taps are fine. Being my first(and only time) at this range though, I decided to seek clarification.

Me: Hey, this says no rapid fire, but are double-taps okay?

Man behind the counter, already leary of my Washington State Concealed Carry Permit, and lack of a Connecticut Pistol License:
Does that mean you intened to pull the trigger more than once per second?

Me: Ummm....yes.

Man behind counter: That sounds like rapid fire to me.


Dude's attitude made me feel about two inches tall. But, his place, his rules. That, and the nearest other range that would rent to me was the Smith and Wesson range in Springfield, Mass, over an hour away.

I'll admit to not being sure of the 'tactical' validity of double-taps, but I know during my normal training sessions, I practice at least a couple of magazines that are nothing but double-taps, and if I ever find myself needing to use my gun in a defensive situation, well...double-taps is what I have been practicing.

Am I blowing this whole double-tap thing out of proportion in my attempts to be deffensively minded? I have always kind of wondered how that would come out in a trial:

Evil Lawyer looking to prosecute me for defending mine and my families life: So according to all the data, you pulled the trigger twice? How do you know the first bullet wouldn't have stopped the threat?

Just looking to get other folks thoughts on double-taps, and if anyone nows of a double-tap ever being used against someone in a court of law

 

[OEF_VET]

My response to said lawyer would read something like this: "Well sir, I was certain he was about to kill me and my family, and in my frightened state I must have accidently forgot to fire the third round to the head as I practice at the range."

Just kidding. My real response would be "Sir, I stopped firing as soon as I was certain the threat was over."

 

[NukemJim]

"I'll admit to not being sure of the 'tactical' validity of double-taps, "

You might want to read Evan Marshalls 3rd book on stopping power. According to his research doubletaps are not much , if any, more effective at stopping an attacker than a single shot. He strongly reccomends firing till the threat is neutralized or till lockback on a semi.

There are also discussions on this on www.stoppingpower.net

Please be aware that the rules on the above site are strictly enforced. Basicly no foul language and no posting of other web sites without permission.


Nukemjim

 

[Matt G]

Hmmm... we may suffer some thread drift, here, toward discussion on the tactical eficacy of double taps.

Some instructors are now moving toward what are being referred to as "controlled pairs." Bang-Bang, as opposed to the doubletap: Bangbang. Difference is that with the controlled pairs, you actually reacquire your sight picture for the second shot.

I myself believe both should be practiced, as they both take a special skill. Even the Controlled Pair technique puts two shots into the target in well under 1/2 a second, which would violate NukemJim's rangemaster's little policy. If that's their hard and fast policy, find another range. Generally, though, I think I'd play the game of "'Tis better to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission."

--M.G.

 

[jmbg29]

I was at this gun range in Connecticut

That says it all.

Expect to lose all of your rights as a human being when in the southern 3 states in New England. Expect that nothing will make sense. Expect that wherever you go, sheeple will be in charge.

End of story.

 

[Majic]

The range I used to attend hired a rangemaster who imposed his own rule of no rapid fire shots. He insisted that you allow 10 seconds between shots. This was an outdoor range with a 300yd rifle range. He also quit cutting the grass beyond the 100yd mark because he said it took too much time to check targets at 200yd and he couldn't even see the 300yd 10" gongs so he knew nobody shot at them. The range also had monthly competions for rifle and handgun shooters (not much money or trophys were involved, just mainly bragging rights) and the winners had a shoot off at the end of the fall season, but he cancelled all events because they would take up too much of his time. He's just a lazy, grouchy ol fart that don't have a clue but got the job thru the "good ol boy system". The range managers backed him whole heartedly with his ideas, no matter that they were totally opposite of the rules that made the place profitable in the first place. Well the old geezer found himself alone at the range in a short period of time. I don't think that range is open anymore.

 

[firestar]

When I carried my P-32, I figuired on emptying the gun if I ever needed it. I don't know about the court afterwards but if I ever needed the gun, I figuire that I REALLY needed it.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The range master obviously isn't much of a shooter.

 

[Thundercleese]

What a hassle. Throw a 22 conversion onto a 1911 and its -really- hard to shoot slowly

 

[buttrap]

Hmmm people actually take guns and shoot them at places with ahhh rules?....

 

[redneck2]

Guess I see both sides...

I (try) double taps while practicing

however........come and look at the ceiling of our range. Hundreds, and I mean HUNDREDS of holes from "rapid fire"

When I get my digital camera and learn how to use it, I'll post some pix

The "no rapid fire" is to force people to slow down and not blast away in a random manner. We have no problem with people who can handle firearms well. It's the chimp that rents a 9mm and sees if he can get off all 50 rounds in a few seconds.

How do you write a rule "If you're an idiot, you have to take your time so you don't shoot the floor, ceiling, and walls???"

 

[narmer71]

They told us in the Republic of South Vietnam

When in doubt, empty your magazine.

 

[Bowlcut]

Ah the pleasure of back yard shooting or on a free unsupervised range. But actualy the few ranges around here dont activly say anything about double taps or even much on rapid fire. Cause just friday night I was practicing some double taps at a 10 yard man sillouette. Was fairly pleased too, i can put one in the croch then one in the chest area...that should slow down an attacker...maybe

 

[geekWithA.45]

"Polite" Range Practice shooting...

Can instill some really bad habits.

A lot of ranges place restrictions on rapid fire, drawing from the holster, and so forth, perhaps quite reasonably in the name of safety.

As a result, a lot of us get really used to standing politely in the same point in the lane, loading the gun from the barrier shelf, and firing rounds in a liesurely manner at a static paper target.

Then, when we try a police qualification for fun, we get mystified with the whole cover/crouching thing, and fumble the grip on the draw.

Fortunately, my range is an "anything goes" proposition, SO LONG AS THE SACRED 4 RULES are observed, and your gun is pointed down range except when holstered.

The other thing is that the owner keeps a pretty tight eye out for newbies and idiots, and as a result, there really aren't too many holes in the cieling.

Newbies get advice, idiots get the boot

 

[Smiley]

priv8ter, Which range was it in CT? I would like to know since the one I frequent lets me empty magazines as fast as I want.

jmbg29
quote:
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I was at this gun range in Connecticut
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"That says it all.

Expect to lose all of your rights as a human being when in the southern 3 states in New England. Expect that nothing will make sense. Expect that wherever you go, sheeple will be in charge.

End of story."

While that may be very close to the truth half of the time, unless you live in CT or have visited for a long time then don't make comments like that. I live in one of those southern 3 states in New England and hold CCW in two of them. While the process is a pain in the butt and one will run across LEO's and sheeple like many other states, things aren't as bad as some make it seems. Especially inCT. We are not the freest, but we are not all sheeple.

 

[priv8ter]

Which Range

Smiley, the range in question was Wolf's in Bristol. I was out to visit the in-laws in Norwich, and my brother-in-law wanted to go shooting as a graduation gift. E+B Sporting Goods in Salem wouldn't do business with me because I didn't have a Ct. State Pistol License. We almost drove up to the S&W Range, but my BIL 'really' wanted to try a Glock out.


Trust me Redneck...I understand what Rapid Fire can do to a ceiling...even at the outdoor range I belong to in Washington, we have to replace the wooden supports every so often. But...bah...double taps don't seem so bad. Did I mention they didn't want the target's any closer than 7 yards? Not much of a problem for me, as my outdoor range is a 25 yarder...

jmbg, I'm not sure Ct. is THAT evil...When I left the range, there were three folks behind the counter(one female, two males), and all three of them were carrying exposed Kimbers on their hips...so Ct can't be TOO bad.

The guy at E+B Sporting Goods used his insurance company as an excuse for why we couldn't shoot their...so, it's not the people that are bad.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

You could always play with the guy's head. He doesn't want any rapid fire which, by his definition, is one round per second. The first shot is fired at time zero. The second round is fired during the first second. Since there is no third shot, you cannot be firing more than one round per second.

The local indoor range here allows shooting submachineguns (bullet trap cannot handle anything bigger, or they would be ok also). Can't get much more rapid than that.

 

[jmbg29]

While that may be very close to the truth half of the time, unless you live in CT or have visited for a long time then don't make comments like that.

I guess that since I have done both, and still have family in Kommienecticut, that what I said will stand without modification from me.

We are not the freest, but we are not all sheeple.

Didn't say you were all sheeple.

Said

Expect that wherever you go, sheeple will be in charge.

You know who Joe Lieberman is don't you? Do you happen to recall what state elected him to the Senate? I do.

How about that Governor Rowland, eh? He won't even whisper that he is a Republican in his own biography on the Governor's website.

I could go on, but it would fall on deaf ears.

 

[BallisticTip]

Good thing you did not do the bump.