DoubleTap ammo chrono results... can I trust the numbers?

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KBintheSLC

KBintheSLC

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I recently chrono'd some DT 10mm in my Glock 20 and the results were a bit concerning. I was getting average velocities in the low 1100's for their 200g @ 1250 fps loads. I also tested some 165g JHP that is claimed to run at 1425 fps... it came up in the low 1300's.

I thought that I might be having bad readings, so I tried some .223 and .22LR. The .223 Silver Bear 62g JSP did 2915 FPS from a Mini 14 which seems pretty close to what it should be. I ran some Winchester 36g "555" high velocity through my Sig 226 .22 conversion at about 1040 fps, which also seems about right coming out of a pistol. I also ran a few 175g factory 10mm Silver Tip's which came out of the G20 in the lower 1200's.

Could it be true that the DT 10mm loads are this far below the advertised velocities? Has anyone else chrono'd these in a G20?

PS... I was using a Shooting F1 Chrony and a stock 4.6" barrel.
 
there's a million threads on this same issue over on glocktalk, and 10mmforum.

DT's been falling short of it's advertised velocities for a while now. they also use montana gold hollowpoints instead of gold dots/xtp's.


i use swampfox ammo. great stuff.
 
Jeeze... now that I am reading all of this stuff, I sort of feel stupid for buying into all of the hype. Sadly, despite the lack of velocity, the signs of excess pressure are still there. Aside from the typical bulged bases, I am getting severely pancaked primers with deep tooling marks embossed into them by the breech face.
 
I was getting average velocities in the low 1100's for their 200g @ 1250 fps loads. I also tested some 165g JHP that is claimed to run at 1425 fps... it came up in the low 1300's.


You might find 100 fps variation in the Glock with the next serial number higher or lower than yours (or with any gun for that matter) when you are in that range of velocities.
 
You might find 100 fps variation in the Glock with the next serial number higher or lower than yours (or with any gun for that matter) when you are in that range of velocities.
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I agree, BUT
low numbers have been reported over and over with DoubleTap, I kinda think that excuse has worn itself out.

besides, SwampFox and BuffaloBore dont seem to have this many complaints...
 
I think I have a solution... I'm just gonna roll my own.

The old adage holds true... "if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself".
 
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Buffalo Bore also markets ".40 S&W +P" ammo, which doesn't technically exist as there is no official SAAMI spec for it. This is unsafe and irresponsible as a marketing practice and serves only to create confusion. I find this to be morally reprehensible. They then have the nerve to blame anything that goes wrong on firearm/chamber design, despite the fact that the firearm is of modern design in good working order and perfectly safe for use with any ammunition that actually adheres to SAAMI/industry specs. Like I said, sketch at best.

I don't give a crap how close BB chronos or what they sell their ammo for. It will still be a cold day in hell before I let any of that crap near my guns.
 
Buffalo Bore also markets ".40 S&W +P" ammo, which doesn't technically exist as there is no official SAAMI spec for it. This is unsafe and irresponsible as a marketing practice and serves only to create confusion. I find this to be morally reprehensible. They then have the nerve to blame anything that goes wrong on firearm/chamber design, despite the fact that the firearm is of modern design in good working order and perfectly safe for use with any ammunition that actually adheres to SAAMI/industry specs. Like I said, sketch at best.
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there's no SAAMI spec for +P+ 9mm either, but all the major players make it for LE.


BB does have a warning on their site that warns against using this round in a gun with diminished case support.

this guy chose to ignore the warning on BB's site about the +p 40cal, and blew his EMP40 up with this round. SA EMP's have less case support than glocks (i own both).

he took a pic of the exploded round:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=257261&page=3
 
My G20 averages 1315 fps with the Doubletap 200 gr hardcast. They advertise 1300fps. Maybe I got lucky.
 
I swear I'd be a millionaire if I boxed up my personal reloads in cardboard with the words: Death Adder XXX scrolled in fake blood and sealed the whole works with a wax stamp. One weekend at a gun show would probably do it.

Honestly, there are fewer than a half-dozen guys I know who I would trust to load for me and none of them have ever offered (which is part of why I trust them). The commonality is that none of us feels the need to turn a .25ACP into a .357Sig. Pushing the limits of SAAMI specs is BEGGING, I repeat BEGGING for problems. Self defense should start with a sense of self-preservation and "hot rounds" should be considered contrary to that notion.

Every fool who looses an eye or thumb or life to some crap-in-a-box ammo also looses credibility for the rest of us. Newspapers and anti-gun lobbies love to quote statistics on firearm injuries and deaths. The average citizen won't ever hear particulars or gross negligence from the ammo producer. They'll hear senseless tragedy, more gun owners killed with their own weapon than...
 
Skylerbone,
You make a good point. However, I don't think that it is asking too much of a 10mm loading to run a 200g bullet at 1200 fps. As I am sure you are already aware, there is published reloading data that will attain this velocity while staying well within the 37,500 max psi standard.

I think a lot of folks tend to believe that higher peak chamber pressure will always result in higher velocities. Reality however, tells a different story. The loads above that I tested from DT were suffering simultaneously from excess peak pressure and low velocity... almost as if the powder was burning up too fast.
 
Agreed. I have the load data from Hornady/Hodgdon/Speer/Nosler etc. so I know it's possible. I just think there are far too many shooters who never take the time to learn about ammo selection. I don't have a problem with factory loads other than price. I know mine is more accurate and much cheaper than what can be had.

I also know plenty of loaders who load foolishly. One loads for "night fire" meaning whichever powder provides the greatest amount of muzzle flash. His "day loads" include the powder providing the most smoke. Mine are loaded for accuracy and consistency.

A #1 phillips head is the wrong tool for a six-penny nail. If you didn't bring enough gun, go back and get a different one that fits the need.
 
That's funny... Its hard to imagine how excess smoke or flash could ever be desirable unless you were doing a magic show in Vegas. To each their own I suppose. As for factory ammo, I believe that the 10mm has plenty of juice for most applications even if it is loaded well below maximum velocity. My favorite factory loading is still the Winchester Silvertip 175g. It is plenty potent without being a hazard. Beyond that, I think I will keep working to refine my own big loads for the woods.

If you didn't bring enough gun, go back and get a different one that fits the need.
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Ditto. This goes for every caliber. There is no sense risking life and limb to try and squeeze an extra 5% of velocity.
 
there's no SAAMI spec for +P+ 9mm either, but all the major players make it for LE.
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Yes, but the 9mm Luger is a European round, and CIP does have standards for +P+ 9mm Luger, so there has been guidelines in the industry for years.

The .40 S&W is a newer cartridge and already operates at 9mm +P pressures, and there is no standard in the industry. Plastering that label on your ammo as a marketing gesture because some poor sap is inevitably going to believe +P means better is misleading and unsafe. While I am tempted to say that any moron who buys the hype and is actually stupid enough to use the stuff deserves any ill fortune that may befall him as a result, this is a hobby and a lifestyle that is closely scrutinized by political enemies who would like to legislate it out of existence, for everybody. The fact that Buffalo Bore has a website and a warning blaming the gun for their carelessness doesn't make it any better that some Bubba sitting behind a table of mystery loads at a gunshow.

"Cerful...thuz ah loaded hot."

Or if you want that kind of performance from a .40 caliber projectile, you could just get yourself a 10mm to begin with. It's easier and safer to load the 10mm Auto to .40 S&W levels than it is to attempt to load .40 S&W to 10mm Auto levels.

And since every firearm chambered in the .40 S&W is going to be built to handle it according to SAAMI specs, loading beyond this is going to, at the very least, increase wear and tear on your firearm. It also has potential to create reliability problems, and is unsafe regardless of your chamber dimensions.

I am a good capitalist though so if you wanna put it in your guns, I suppose that is fine. I don't use public ranges so I don't even have to worry about your gun coming apart in the next lane. As far as I am concerned, it's your risk, but that stuff isn't coming anywhere near my guns.

Mine are loaded for safety and reliability.
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Fixed it for ya ;)
 
Had to laugh...great reading this thread. "Kaboom" for the esoteric privilege of a 5% increase in velocity. And tatooing one's face with shards of his pet 1911, just for phun. You guys slay me with your observations. CAUTION: there's some serious common sense being expressed here. Keep up the good work.
 
Yes, because we know that no gun has ever blown up using standard pressure ammo, only ammo loaded 5% above standard pressure.
 
I only have shot DT's 44mag 240gr SP loads and i do match or just excead there advertized 1500fps but with a DW 8" with a 2th's cylinder gap revolver instead of a 7.5" No problems here. I would bet that current revolvers with a 8 to 10th's gap would read like some glocks. slower.
 
Russian Roulette only results in a 1 in 6 chance of death. Playing with an autoloader...odds may differ.

It's a dangerous sport made more so with variables like out of spec ammo that can be had by anyone for the asking price. A warning by the manufacturer may be seen as a guarantee that at some point what they warn you about is about to happen.

Same reason for the red line on a tach, it doesn't prevent further excelleration but I know first hand what happens when you cross the line one too many times.
 
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