dowel jammed in bore - what next?

[_N4Z_]

I had a oops today at the range. I was fire forming brass for my M39 when I experienced a misfire. After waiting a minute I attempted to extract the round. To my dismay powder came pouring out with the case.. no round. It was jammed in the bore. Now this seemed odd as the primer never went off, only the action of the pin hitting the case could do this?

I had a couple dowels on site. Figured the thing could not be in there very bad so I attempted to knock it out with the dowels. Bad move. They now are also wedged in the bore. Frustrating thing is this has worked in the past. I made it worse when I got home trying to pull the dowel out with pliers. Snapped the end right off..... This just kept getting better.

Tried pushing the whole mess through with a brass jag, cleaning rod, hammer... but stopped and walked away. Hope I didn't cause any real damage.

So any magic fixes or should I find a gunsmith?

 

[docsleepy]

I think the standard solution is a brass rod just undersize (set of calipers may help here) and bang it out. One would want to avoid the wood swelling from moisture. Trip to the hardware store to buy the rod, I think. If only a tiny bit of the wood is actually in the bore, then very careful center drilling to reduce its mass, might make it easier to remove. You didn't say whether the wood went in from breech or muzzle. Haivng something stuck at BOTH ENDS would be more of a mess. My guess is that an action guide and a brass rod ffrom the breech end would be best, but this is only a guess.

 

[_N4Z_]

Unfortunately yes, the dowels went in muzzle end to knock the round out the breech. So yes it's a big ole mess, 150gr. fmj at the breach end, and a 27" bore full of dowel the rest of the way.

I'm just sick about this.

 

[kenno]

take a syringe or funnel and fill the bore with water insert a plug in the muzzel. Place barrel assembly in deep freeze for 24 hours. The slug should be loosened by the ice formation. repeat if necessary.

 

[Quoheleth]

2 ideas...

Carefully drill a hole into the dowel just big enough to allow a thin screw to be twisted into the wood. The object is to make a hole big enough that when the screw is driven partially in, it won't swell the wood tighter into the rifling.

Dismount the barrel & action from the wood. Heat gently with a hair dryer or hot air paint remover. A low (150) oven might work too. The idea is to give you enough metal swell to remove the dowel without risking powder KB.

On the other end of the spectrum, use a can of the Dr. scholl's freezing wart remover and try to freeze the brass case. Maybe it will shrink the case enough that a think screwdriver can be used to pop it out or a little pogo-action migh release it.

Option 3 - wait for a gun buyback

Q

 

[_N4Z_]

hmmmm, thanks for the input.

the frozen water thing would be good, if there wasn't a bore full of wood. might get the bullet loose, but it would for sure make the wood swell.

and Quoheleth, there is no brass case involved. it came out and left the bullet in the breech. powder spilled out too.

i have taken the barrel/action out of the stock. will be calling around tomorrow to try and find local assistance.

this rifle is a fantasic shooter, and a looker to boot. i am afraid to do anything that could permanently damage it.

 

[SleazyRider]

Hydraulics rock!

I've used a grease gun successfully many times in the past for removing a stuck bullet, using a coupling I made with a zerk fitting, reducing bushing, and short piece of hydraulic rubber hose that I hose-clamp to the end of the barrel. (Even quality automotive heater hose may work.) A half-dozen pumps of the grease gun and out it comes. It's a bit messy and wastes a little grease, but it hasn't failed me yet.

If the end of the barrel will not permit this, or you want to try something somewhat simpler first, stand the rifle upright and fill the barrel with oil until it overflows. Put a rubber stopper in the end of the barrel to act as a piston, support the breech, and whack it a few time with a wooden mallet. You may have to get creative with regard to the piston, perhaps even using a tight-fitting dowel.

 

[azyogi]

Try a self tapping aluminum wood screw, that is a wood screw made from aluminum, with a built in bit at the tip. I have a slide hammer that grabs screw heads, that's how I'd start then once the dowel is out proceed with above ideas.

 

[Guns and more]

Interesting question.
The coefficient of expansion of lead is much greater than steel.
.0000087 per degree for lead, and only .0000032 per degree for carbon steel.
So, I'd put the barrel in the freezer overnight and see if the bullet just falls out.
Keep moisture out, maybe tape up the ends.

 

[kostyanj]

Anytime I've had this issue, a brass cleaning rod and a rubber mallet seemed to come through in the clutch. Just try to center the rod in the bullet.

 

[W.E.G.]

I would pull bullets on a dozen primed cases.
Cut the necks off the cases.
Fire the cases with just the primer.

The blowtorch method, which is usually employed to free stuck patches, may not be advisable on this problem, as it sounds like the obstruction is right at the throat of the chamber. I wouldn't want to heat the chamber area of a barrel that hot.

 

[MattTheHat]

I think you said you removed the barrel from the action, correct?

How far up the barrel did the bullet travel?

If it's close enough to drill and tap, you could certainly made a slide hammer type bullet puller. Use a short piece of threaded rod that will thread into the bullet, and then place some sort of weight over the rod. Put a fender washer and nut on the end of the threaded rod and tap the weight back and forth, allowing it to bottom on the fender washer/nut.

Brownell's makes a little device like this, but I'm not sure exactly how it works. It may try to push the bullet through from the front, which won't work in your case bacause of the wooden dowel that's complicating matters.


-Matt

 

[_N4Z_]

I appreciate all the input submitted on this thread. I contemplated trying a couple, but ended up taking it to a recommended local old timer, who is well known for his machining and gunsmithing skills.

Hope he can make some good magic happen with my problem.

 

[MattTheHat]

He will. Being an old timer, he's seen it all before and should have a plan in mind.


-Matt

 

[Walkalong]

Which is why brass rods are always recommended over wooden dowels for that kind of work in pistols. Hate you learned the hard way. An old one piece stainless or coated steal cleaning rod will work in rifles, unless the case/bullet is really, really, tight.

My sons FIL stuck a 158 gr .38 bullet in a snubby. I could not drive it out with a brass rod. I made a brass sleeve to guide a drill bit, drilled through the bullet, and it tapped it out easily then. I could not believe how tight it was stuck. I have driven bullets from barrels before with that brass rod easily.

 

[Riss]

try drilling and tapping a bolt stud into the rear of the stuck bullet and pulling it out with a slide hammer or similar.

 

[docsleepy]

On another thread I saw an interesting solution to a problem like this, which I think one of the posts above has already aluded to. (W.E.G.)

The fellow on the other thread intentionally tested very light weight charges in a pistol, until one stuck, and he had brought along some CHARGED but not SEATED (no bullet) cases (presumably with paraffin to keep the powder there). He used one of those to easily get the bullet out.


In THIS case, you not only have the bullet, you have the wooden rod. That makes it a bigger problem. However, one might consider starting with 1/10 normal load, then 15% then 20% and trying several small charges like this to see if you could get it out.....comments?? I know that having an OBSTRUCTION in the barrel is very risky with a FULL load, but would it possibly be safe wtih very light loads?

 

[harmonic]

ended up taking it to a recommended local old timer, who is well known for his machining and gunsmithing skills.

That's what I was going to suggest. It'll be fine.

 

[Sunray]

"...make some good magic..." He'll put the rifle in a padded vise and bash it out with an AL or brass rod and a plastic or rubber mallet. Applied physics isn't magic.
"...freeze for 24 hours..." That's also applied physics, but not the right kind. Water makes wood expand.

 

[_N4Z_]

Follow up

Well, got the rifle back today, and things didn't turn out as good as I had hoped.
Bore got cleared, but there is now a noticable 1/8" wide x 1/4" long shiny scar/gouge about 1 to 1-1/2 inches from the end of the muzzle. Otherwise the other 27 inches look good. I can feel the marring with the end of a q-tip.

Sucks. I am hoping she still has ablity to shoot as well as before as this was my go to rifle for mil-bolt competition.

Poo.

 

[PT1911]

the wooden dowel method is a good one... IF the dowel is a SMALLER diameter than the bore... lol...

sorry bud, that is a bad day... few things I would try for future reference if this ever happens again....ice is your friend... works for aiding in dislodging bullets as well as getting two piece fishing rods apart...

As to the dowel... well, with the bullet out, you could push it out with a smaller dowel or cleaning rod (may want to put a patch between to "cushion the blow."

the good news is, you've done nothing to cause legitimate damage to your gun... you stopped short of doing anything REALLY stupid.


addition---guess the "old timer" got a little rough with some steel on steel...

Worst case scenario, you can have 2 inches lopped off and a recrown...

 

[OYE]

To address your original problem. The primer did not go off as I understand it, yet the bullet got stuck in the bore. The few times I have seen this is on a gun with a short throat, with the bullet seated to within a couple thousands or so of the rifling, with no crimp. In each case, A WEAK FIRING PIN SPRING has been the culprit. Has enough energy to drive the shell casing forward to jam the bullet in the lands, but not set the primer off. The bullet gets stuck just enough that the bullet will not come out when the brass case is extracted. It's been on relatively new rifles each time with handloaded ammo. Best

 

[SleazyRider]

... but ended up taking it to a recommended local old timer, who is well known for his machining and gunsmithing skills.
QUOTE]

This was the logical thing to do, don't get me wrong; but its been my experience that science, tempered by ingenuity and common sense, oftentimes trump age, locality, reputation, experience, certifications, et cetera.

 

[rscalzo]

Go to Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. They sell lengths of brass rods in various diameters. Get one slightly undersized. The rods are usually about three feet long so I cut the up and keep them in my gun bags and home shop.

After I cut them, I round off the edges.

As you found, wood shatters.

The bullet gets stuck just enough that the bullet will not come out when the brass case is extracted

Been there with uncrimped cases.

 

[Jim K]

Docsleepy's source does it the way gunsmiths do it when the customer leaves. Just don't ever try to shoot out a blockage using a round with a bullet in it. NEVER!
Jim