Spent casing jammed tight in AR-15

[Turkish]

Well yesterday I took my AR-15 out with the new flat top upper and 16" barrel on it(all Colt parts). I put about 240 rounds through it, with only one or two mag related jams. I handed the rifle to my friend, and the first rifle he fires he gets a jam. I had to hit the butt of the rifle on the ground while pulling the charging handle to get it open, then while trying to knock the case out we hit the bolt release and jammed the bolt in for good. When I got home i seperated the two halves, and the bolt came free with a little leverage with a screw driver. After that I tried to get the case out by tapping on the back of a cleaning rod with a hammer but the round would not budge an inch. I tried to grab it with some pliers but those just slipped off. I was thinking of getting a steel rod about .20 caliber and using the hammer with that since it hopefully won't bend as easily as an aluminum cleaning rod, but I decided to check here first to see if you guys had any ideas. The casing that is stuck is a Wolf btw, polymer coated. Before that I shot 80 rounds of PCA polymer cased ammo and 80 rounds of 62gr. Barnaul, and 80-100 rounds of Wolf.

Thanks for any assistance.

 

[1911Tuner]

Beware the Wolf

Howdy turkish,

What's probably happened is that the bullet ogive is jammed into the rifling
just ahead of the leade in the chamber. I've seen that happen with Wolf ammo a few times...mostly in pistols. Bullet sizing or the ogive is out of spec causes it...and when you let the bolt smack it, it drove it deeper and probably wedged the case mouth into the leade too. Bad scene ya got there. Not only is there a live round jammed tightly in the chamber, it's
probably jammed in such a way as to drive pressures off the scale if it fires. Treat it like a bomb, and understand that even if it doesn't bllow the
receiver, the case will be a very effective and deadly projectile as it blows
backward out the bolt housing in the receiver.

See if you can break the case loose from the bullet by working it from side to side in 4 quadrants. Unless the case got jammed in past the chamber mouth, there should be a little of it sticking out the back of the chamber. Easy does it. Don't use a pointed tool. If you tickle the primer, you could be in for a nasty surprise. It may take a while, so stop and rest when your fingers start to cramp. Don't rush it. Eventually you'll get it to let go. The main thing is to deactivate the round first...THEN proceed to working on getting the bullet out. Understand that the job is dangerous, and you work on it at your own risk.

At that point, the bullet may be all that's jammed unless you break the case neck off in the leade. Driving a rod through the barrel will probably wedge it in tighter, so your best bet is to try to move it from the breech end. Pouring a good penetrating oil in the muzzle will help a little. No need to go overboard...just enough to cover the bullet nose so it can soak past the
bullet and into the lands and grooves. Let it soak overnight and alternate
between lightly tapping it with a rod from the muzzle end, and trying to lever it sideways from the breech end with a suitable tool. Be careful not to damage the chamber with the tool.

The process may take a while...It took me about 3 hours total time on the
rifle once to remove one like yours...but it eventually came out. Oh yeah...
Care to guess the brand of ammo that did it?

If possible, use a rod with a concave end that fits the bullet pretty closely.
A steel rod that's been center-drilled will help. Hope you haven't damaged the bullet nose too badly with the first attempt.

I wish ya all the luck, mah fren...

 

[Turkish]

Actually it isn't a live round stuck in the chamber, it's just the spent casing. It did come to mind before I read your response to put some kroil down the barrel and let it sit overnight, which would hopefully break the case free.

 

[1911Tuner]

Spent Casing

Ah! Your task is much easier then...

The kroil was good. Your problem is much like the one that got some American soldiers and marines killed in the early days of the M-16 in Vietnam. Dirty chambers and likely corroded ammo, combined with an extractor shearing through the rim. The jams could be...as often as not...be cleared with the cleaning rod. Try soaking the chamber walls by squirting the Kroil into the chamber end too.

FWIW...I've also seen that problem on the older Wolf ammo. Haven't had any contact with the "improved" stuff...but it's still a steel case with a coating on it...and the laquer will transfer to the chamber walls when things heat up enough to soften it.

When a steel case expands, it just doesn't spring back like brass...and sometimes the cases will freeze to the chamber. The laquer fouling just adds to it.

Might wanna swap out your extractor and spring when ya get the rifle cleared.

 

[Badger Arms]

I thought Colt's had a chrome chamber? I've had the same experience with WOLF ammo in the past, and everybody told me it was because I had a .223 chamber that was not chrome lined. BAD ME! My behind, it was bad ammo. Give the Wolf to somebody who likes it and owns a Bushmaster. Seems to be the only gun that crap will work in. Good for Bushmaster, bad for us.

 

[Turkish]

Wolf works fine in my 20" SP1 upper that was originally on the lower, with the same bolt that got jammed in the 16" upper. The barrel and upper were seperate items I put together myself, by the book. Barrel was torqued to 40 ft./lbs. and go and no-go head space gauges were used. Upper was made at Colt's Alcoa Forge, stamped 7.62x39 on the left side, apparently made as part of a conversion kit for ar-15 rifles. The barrel is stamped Colt, m4 profile, that I bought off a member of this board. According to the barrel markings it is not chrome lined chamber. The more I think about it, the more I think that the case is melted into the chamber. The Wolf ammo itself was the new polymer coated kind that supposedly doesn't melt off and stick intot he chamber, but the 80 rounds of Barnual were laquer coated like the old Wolf. I was also doing an experiment for a class and fired 60 rounds of Barnual rapid fire which heated the barrel up quite a bit, after 120 or so rounds of rapid fire with the PCA and Wolf ammo before that with probably not enough time to cool off all the way.

I would also like to add that as far as I can tell this is NOT due to a bad barrel. It was checked out prior to assembly by my neighbor who used to sell AR-15/M-16 parts in Shotgun News and by my cousin, who isn't an expert but knows his way around an AR, and both said the barrel was in very good shape. I just wanted to add that in so no one got the wrong idea about the seller. In pm he was concered about this problem and I wanted to make it absolutly clear that this malfunction was not caused by his barrel, and all indications point to it being ammo related. I'm not sure if this was really needed but I wanted to cover the seller as he is a good, trustworthy seller and I didn't want this problem to be taken as a reflection on his service, which is top-notch.

 

[1911Tuner]

Melted Case

T'was said:

>rounds of Barnual rapid fire which heated the barrel up quite a bit, after 120 or so rounds of rapid fire with the PCA and Wolf ammo before that with probably not enough time to cool off all the way.<

120 rounds per minute is within ordnance specs for maximum rate of sustained fire for the 5.56 caliber M-16...The 7.62X39, being a lower velocity/intensity round should allow an even higher maximum sustained rate of fire...and the limit would be just short of a cook-off. I've seen 16s cook off and never jam. Ya had to drop the magazine to stop'em sometimes. 'Course, that was with brass cased ammo...

 

[Turkish]

Well after the fist 60 rounds of Wolf the barrel was smoking a bit, and the handguards were warm to the touch the entire time. I just got home not too long ago so I'm about to go pour that Kroil down the barrel now and try it again after school.

 

[Turkish]

Well I started pouring kroil down the barrel, and after a minute I noticed my leg felt a little wet. Apparently there is this thing called a "gas tube" which is in the gunn apparently for the purpose of spraying any liquids you put down the barrel all over your leg. You "experts" could have at least told me about that fun little device . Oh well, wasted a little(a lot) of kroil but at least I got some in the barrel too. Tried to get a pair of needle nose vice grips in there to grab the end of the case but I could not get them in there at all. Tried with a pair of regular needle nose and although I did get a grab at the rim, the jaws kept slipping off.

 

[Jim K]

I don't think you are going to have a lot of luck with pliers unless the Kroil really works. I think you will have to find a piece of steel (drill rod) or a steel cleaning rod and drive out that case. You should be able to do it with no damage to the barrel, but if you try with anything else (like a wood dowel) you will just break it off or get it stuck in the barrel and be worse off than ever. An aluminum rod will likely just bend and jam up. Do not try to use two pieces of anything, unless they are firmly screwed together. One piece will try to wedge under the other, and real trouble results.

If you are near a city of any size, check with an industrial supply company for 13/64 (.20") drill rod. It normally comes for about $3 in 18" lengths, which should be long enough. Brownells has it also, but a local supplier would be faster.

Jim

 

[Turkish]

Weel, my dad picked me up a piece of steel rod today, so after school I cut it to about 19" and after a few good taps with a hammer the case fell right out. It seems that the case was indeed melted to the inside of the chamber, and it even appeared as some had gotten under the extractor when I took it out to install an o-ring.

Thanks everyone for all your help, it was very greatly appreciated.

 

[Wildalaska]

Wolf!!!!

WildyetanotherexampleAlaska

 

[BigG]

It's the ammo. Wolf shouldn't be shot no matter how cheap it is.

 

[Turkish]

One thing I must say in defense of Wolf is that it has been absolutley flawless in the original 20" barrel that came on my SP1. Not a single non mag-related jam in hundreds of rounds(thousands if you count the Norinco steel cased). In fact, I've had more jams with Winchester q3131a in that barrel than with Wolf, one round was actually jammed inbetween the gas key and charging handle. Doesn't mean I'll be using Wolf in the 16" barrel, but it also doesn't mean Wolf is the oooooh-scary-bad ammo many people make it out to be. In some rifles yes it is, but in alot of rifles it is eaten like candy and asked for more. I'm not saying to go out and buy 5000 rounds of it, but don't bash it just because of a few bad examples, which in my case I strongly feel isn't even directly because of the Wolf ammo, but the Barnual ammo which had the melting laquer on the case. The Wolf just happened to be the round that got stuck in the mess.

 

[1911Tuner]

Woof!

Ah! Well...Carry on then, lad. Carry on!

Oh...The round that jammed between the gas key and th charging handle was mag-related.

Luck!

Tuner