Dr. Ignatius Piazza and Front Site

[leadcounsel]

Has anyone here any experience with the Front Site handgun or shotgun courses?

$50 "lifetime" membership promotion, including a free course and materials.

Seems he's running a promotion and throwing in a free course in NV allegedly worth $1000.

Anyone have any experience or opinions of him?

I have the answer to the insanity of Gun Free Zones and I am putting my money where my mouth is by paying the legal fees of the first victim to file a very specific lawsuit against the Cinemark Movie Theater chain that denied responsible citizens their right to carry a concealed weapon to defend themselves against the murderous rampage of a deranged killer.

I am also providing a free Two Day Defensive Handgun Course ($1,000 value) to EVERY AMERICAN who subscribes to my free Gun Training Reports and agrees to forward this e-mail to everyone they know.

If you are already a subscriber to my Gun Training Reports, but not yet a Lifetime Member, I am giving you a new Front Sight Communicator Lifetime Membership (over $10,000 lifetime value) for only $49 dollars that will allow you to attend my Two Day Defensive Handgun, Two Day Tactical Shotgun, and Two Day Practical Rifle Courses as many times as you wish for the rest of your life, simply for agreeing to forward selected e-mails I send you to everyone you know.

If you are already a Front Sight Lifetime Member I am GIVING you a Front Sight Communicator Lifetime Membership to sell or transfer to anyone you know simply for agreeing to forward my e-mails to everyone you know!

Why am I doing this? Because it needs to be done! Victims of the Aurora, CO shooting need to file a lawsuit against the Cinemark Theater chain for denying them the ability to defend themselves by prohibiting the carry of licensed and permitted, concealed weapons into the theater. I believe that a private company certainly has the choice to deny patrons the right to carry a gun into the building, but in denying the right to self defense with a gun, once the private company accepts money from the patron, they also accept the liability to protect the patron TO THE SAME LEVEL that the patron would have had available to them, had the private company allowed them to carry their licensed and permitted weapons for self defense.

I believe a jury of Aurora, CO citizens will recognize the responsibility and liability the Cinemark Theater accepted and set new legal precedence with a favorable jury verdict for the victims of the shooting. This in turn will cause every "Gun Free Zone" in America to rethink their position or face a similar verdict.

I believe so strongly in this, I will pay the legal fees of the first victim to file a lawsuit using this specific claim against the Cinemark Theater chain.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Caution

Knowing that Front Sight threads often attract second-hand opinions and rumor-driven gossip, let me extend a word of caution before we proceed with this thread.

Name calling is not productive. Expect any of that to be deleted.

Rumors are not facts and rumors are not experience. Expect any of that to be deleted.

Off-topic rants relating to Dr. Piazza and any of his other enterprises will also be deleted.

So, that leaves us with strictly on-topic remarks by people who have been there (and I know we have several here) their impressions of the experience.

"I know a guy whose buddy went there and . . . " will not be helpful.

Let's confine ourselves to actual facts. We're interested in the actual training and any other actual interaction with the facility or its staff.

I'll take a moment to see if I can find some earlier remarks. From what I recall, the people who have actually reported on their experiences there have been largely favorable.

Carry on.

 

[2DREZQ]

Overall quite positive

I and two friends went there last year for the 4-day handgun course. The training was very good indeed. I've been CC for 20 years, but I learned stuff and came out a lot better than I went in.

The school was fairly well run. A few minor things seemed a bit on the cheesy side, but you should EXPECT a little sales pitch now and then, this is America, and the school is a business. I bought the lifetime 2-day rifle, 2-day shotgun, 2-day and 4-day handgun package for $300 and am quite satisfied with the quality of the product. I will be going back.

One caveat: although I have years of shooting experience, this is the only school of this type I have attended, so my breadth of experience does not include comparisons with other schools of this type/

 

[12131]

From what I recall, the people who have actually reported on their experiences there have been largely favorable.

That's not very helpful.

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

 

[Centurian22]

Thank you Arfin for laying that out, and thank you lead for posting I've been thinking about the $49 lifetime membership myself. I think tomorrow is the last day.

 

[leadcounsel]

$49 -
And then there's airfare, hotel, rental car... and then do you pay for someone else to go at full price or go by yourself...?

I'm thinking it would be a 'good intentions' thing that would never materialize because at the end of the day you're looking at $500 easily... still good afordable training...

So I signed up. Figure Vegas is close... could be a great week!

 

[beatledog7]

I think tomorrow is the last day.

Until the next offer hits your inbox.

 

[Sam1911]

We've kicked this around before:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=564604
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=539772
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=529265
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=515278
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=501239
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=500574
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=475055
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=460707

Certainly worth doing as much on-line research as you can into Front Sight and Piazza before you sign up.

But like ArfinGreebly said, we won't tolerate the massive bashing and ridicule questions about him/FS usually attract.

 

[JohnBT]

www.frontsight.com/handgun-training-memberships.asp

All of the memberships are sold out. I guess you missed your chance.

 

[kcshooter]

Let's confine ourselves to actual facts

A Google search will lead you to a large number of lawsuits against him and his enterprises. I won't elaborate at all with respect to the mod's post.

 

[Sam1911]

I won't elaborate at all with respect to the mod's post.

Thank you! We do not want this to be yet another bash-fest and reiteration of all of the many accusations and denigrations of Dr. Piazza and his organization which are so very common on the web.

 

[JohnBT]

He settled the class action suit brought against him by some of the members right before it went to trial. According to the local paper, he violated the terms of the settlement and they had to go back to court. I've quit following the story in recent years, but the court still has the records I imagine. None of that is either an accusation or a denigration. It's history.

John

 

[ArfinGreebly]

And he's still open for business and people still go there to train and people are still satisfied with that training.

When I start hearing reports of bad training or of a failure to deliver training services, or some other substantive matter, that will get my attention.

As long as he's there, teaching people to shoot, delivering self defense training, and satisfying a need in the RKBA community, I consider him to be an asset.

Bad training, failures to deliver, or a pattern of unhappy customers would indicate he has become a liability.

I may not invite him home to dinner, but as long as he's helping make new shooters and better shooters from existing ones, I will withhold criticism.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I may not invite him home to dinner, but as long as he's helping make new shooters and better shooters from existing ones, I will withhold criticism.

That is my feeling also.

For some folks this is all the training they can afford...and just about any training is better than none...it serves a very real need in the defensive shooting world. I've never met a shooter who attended a class there who wasn't a better shooter after they completed the class.

I've met several folks, who have taken training there, who wanted to wanted to go beyond the how and understand the why. They keep me supplied with clients

 

[JohnBT]

Defend him and his past practices if you like. Maybe he really has changed his ways. Only time will tell. Meanwhile, I think folks deserve to know the facts before getting involved.

John

 

[Sam1911]

I think folks deserve to know the facts before getting involved.

And that's fine, John. A quick Google search will turn up probably dozens of hours of reading material on his misdeeds and the negatives that surround his organization.

However, we are trying to focus this strictly on the training provided -- what happens on the range or in the classrooms -- not on shady business practices or ugly sales tactics, court antics, etc.

Surely someone here has attended training there and can vouch for its worth?

I met a new IDPA shooter a month or two back who'd been and who was proud enough of that to wear their hat (the only time I've ever seen that, to be sure!) but I didn't get to ask him about it as I had a match to run.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

So... am I the only one slightly disturbed that the terms of the agreement for this membership offer essentially require you to become his personal spam bot?

Notice that the last two statements don't even have context of what emails you will be forwarding:

..simply for agreeing to forward selected e-mails I send you to everyone you know.

..simply for agreeing to forward my e-mails to everyone you know!

They might have the best training on the planet, and a gunsmithing course taught by the ghost of His Royal Highness John Browning, but that's some ten foot pole material there.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I met a new IDPA shooter a month or two back who'd been and who was proud enough of that to wear their hat (the only time I've ever seen that, to be sure!) but I didn't get to ask him about it as I had a match to run.

I'm a lot closer to FS than you and we have several folks who have attended shoot our local IDPA match...how can you really complain about $200 for a 4-day class, the ammo will cost more than that.

You can always spot them by how they load and holster...to say nothing of their overly bladed Weaver stance...but I must say they are always very safe

 

[Sam1911]

You can always spot them by how they load and holster

Really? I didn't pick up on that, but I wasn't sqadded with him.

What is unique about how they teach that?

to say nothing of their overly bladed Weaver stance

That's almost anachronistic these days, though I know Gunsite teaches Weaver, too. Interesting choice.

 

[9mmepiphany]

What is unique about how they teach that?

They always scan to both sides when they do an Administrative reload or when they Unload and Show Clear.

Not that there is anything wrong with the habit of scanning before holstering...more tactically sound when you have your gun at extension; or at least at position 3... but it seems redundant after you've just gone slide down and hammer down (an example of understanding how, but not why). Although I guess it isn't any more odd than taking a sight picture and deliberate trigger press on the Hammer Down command.

It is like the Gunsite command, Reluctantly Re-Holster or what is jokingly referred to as Tactical Response's, Charlie's Angles scan

That's almost anachronistic these days, though I know Gunsite teaches Weaver, too. Interesting choice.

It is a direct linage. Weaver (SWPL) > Cooper (GS) > Taylor (API) > Piazza (FS)

The really odd thing, that I can't fine the linage to, is the High Thumbs grip with the tips of the thumbs pressing against each other...which is wrong on many different levels

 

[mgkdrgn]

I have been to Front Sight, and I can tell you, without reservation, that the training you will get there is top notch.

Come prepared to work, your gonna be busy!

 

[JohnBT]

"And that's fine, John. A quick Google search will turn up probably dozens of hours of reading material on his misdeeds and the negatives that surround his organization.

However, we are trying to focus this strictly on the training provided"


If you insist, but the original post contained this question:

"Anyone have any experience or opinions of him?"


I was raised on Aesop's Moral: A man is known by the company he keeps. A ruined reputation is a difficult thing to regain.

John

 

[The M]

I did the 4 day handgun course a few months ago. It was very good training and I gained some good techniques for sure. Some of the classroom discussions were a little long and redundant but I can't complain considering the low price. I was anticipating and maybe fearing some Scientology brainwashing but it never happened. Just simple safe concealed carry oriented training, just what I needed.

 

[Buck Nekkid]

I lived in Las Vegas for 10 years and was very involved in the shooting community. Without exception the courses received excellent reviews. I knew several of the instructors and they are top notch.

A word of caution: IT'S SUMMER, IT'S THE DESERT, IT'S HOT, IT'S VERY HOT!!

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I have a lifetime membership and have taken five classes there. It's good training, especially if you have never trained anywhere. I like Loui Awerbucks training more. I have also trained elsewhere. I basically use Frontsight as an opportunity to take a week vacation where I get to shoot a bunch with minimal distractions from the outside world. I don't see training as an all or nothing approach. Go to as many different schools as you can. There are lots of good places to train.