Drafting Women?
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SodiumBenzoate
Member
No one should be drafted, regardless of gender. I'd rather see DC burn to the ground than another draft. The survival of a nation cannot, in my mind, justify forcing people to die, especially when they have done absolutely nothing to justify it. Would I volunteer for the military if the country was under attack? Most assuredly. Would I support people being forced into the military? No.
jefnvk
Member
Bingo!
Barbara, what about pregnancy? Should the military force female soldiers to be on birth control... in all situations? In some situations (like submarines)? Not at all?
And... what if the birth control fails or there is no birth control and a female soldier becomes pregnant? Then some medical, logistical, and administrative resources are directed toward dealing with that rather than fighting a war.
Furthermore, imagine the immense burden on resources if a hard Christian-right no-abortion no-exceptions policy included women in the military.
And... what if the birth control fails or there is no birth control and a female soldier becomes pregnant? Then some medical, logistical, and administrative resources are directed toward dealing with that rather than fighting a war.
Furthermore, imagine the immense burden on resources if a hard Christian-right no-abortion no-exceptions policy included women in the military.
Thumper
Member
I think the pregnancy thing could be dealt with. The disparity of strength thing is the problem.
Barbara suggests having one particular PT test for both sexes.
Unfortunately, very, very, few females could pass the current men's standards for their age group. The eventual drop in standards only dilute the force. Then you have the huge gap in upper body strength. Some marginal male troops develop into fine soldiers over time. Women don't have the capacity for that kind of development.
It's a very simple fact: 11B is an occupation that holds physical strength at a premium. Trying to make it "fair" is counterproductive. What is...is.
Wanna fight? Fly a 'plane. I think I read that men and women have similar resistance levels to G's. I'd certainly be ok with that.
Barbara suggests having one particular PT test for both sexes.
Unfortunately, very, very, few females could pass the current men's standards for their age group. The eventual drop in standards only dilute the force. Then you have the huge gap in upper body strength. Some marginal male troops develop into fine soldiers over time. Women don't have the capacity for that kind of development.
It's a very simple fact: 11B is an occupation that holds physical strength at a premium. Trying to make it "fair" is counterproductive. What is...is.
Wanna fight? Fly a 'plane. I think I read that men and women have similar resistance levels to G's. I'd certainly be ok with that.
I'm good with that. It's the blanket "can't do it even if you're qualified that annoys me." Standards shouldn't be lowered for anyone.
I have to clarify, though.. I think the draft is a horrible idea for anyone. I'm talking about volunteers.
Mulliga
Member
Er...many men in our society couldn't do those things, either. If women can meet the physical standards, why not let them in? Mentally, they're just as competent as men.
Take me, for example. I'm a decent shot, and good with electronics, but I don't have much in the way of upper body strength. Why should I get drafted when a strong woman (not hulking bodybuilder, but not a beanpole, either) can't?
It seems to me some of the things you talk about would be nullified if women were in the army...is it not easier to carry a wounded 125 lb woman out than a 200 lb man? Aren't women shorter and smaller than men, meaning less need for deep trenches and less time entrenching, not to mention the ability to field smaller vehicles?
If there were more women on the battlefield, we would change the way we fight wars. Think the "band of brothers" impulse is strong? What about the intrinsic feeling of men to protect women, or, even more, the maternal instinct a woman might develop with the boys in her unit? What about the psychological impact on our enemies when they see women armed to the teeth and killing them left and right?
Selfdfenz
Member
"If there were more women on the battlefield, we would change the way we fight wars. Think the "band of brothers" impulse is strong? What about the intrinsic feeling of men to protect women, or, even more, the maternal instinct a woman might develop with the boys in her unit? What about the psychological impact on our enemies when they see women armed to the teeth and killing them left and right?"
Come on now, you are pulling our legs....aren't you?
"If there were more women on the battlefield, we would change the way we fight wars. "
We might change the tools but the the idea you can change the way wars are and the way they must be addressed is illogical. Every once in a while it's going to turn into something like the 101st in the Ardennes during the Battle of the Bulge or the Marines on Iwo Jima.
Women got no place in places like that. That would just be wrong.
S-
Come on now, you are pulling our legs....aren't you?
"If there were more women on the battlefield, we would change the way we fight wars. "
We might change the tools but the the idea you can change the way wars are and the way they must be addressed is illogical. Every once in a while it's going to turn into something like the 101st in the Ardennes during the Battle of the Bulge or the Marines on Iwo Jima.
Women got no place in places like that. That would just be wrong.
S-
Old Dog
Member
Couple things ...
Drafting females would require a whole-sale paradigm shift for the military establishment ...
First -- to reinstate a draft ... "don't ask, don't tell" will have to go away. Because, currently, as you all know, we do separate personnel should they make an admission of homosexuality. No one really wants to deal with this issue right now ...
The pregancy factor. For the past many years since I've been on active duty, I cannot begin to count the numbers of females I've seen get out of deployments by becoming pregnant (usually, of course, with the help of willing active duty male personnel). Think we can draft women and legally stop them from becoming pregnant? I think not.
I don't believe it would "change the way we fight wars." As long as men serving alongside women had confidence that the women could do their jobs when the fighting started.
I have seen, over the years, a number of females who could outperform males ... especially in fields where calmness, common sense, and thinking ability are required (ATC, AIC, intel, ops, supply, admin, medical) ... of course, women can serve, even on the front lines. I've also seen female divers and EOD techs who've been quite competent. I've witnessed any number of females who could outshoot many males with 1911s, M9s, M-14s, M-16s and M-4s.
If a female could perform requisite tasks/requirements (especially physical) up to the same standards as a male -- no gender-norming -- they should be allowed to serve in any job. Except ...
One thing no one addresses though -- and I see it when deployed -- when males and females serve together, away from their home base/home port -- the whole sex thing becomes totally magnified. When, previously, there were no females present, men could deal with sexual abstinence. Add a handful of women to the mix during a deployment -- there will be sexual tension. This, to me is a big factor in my belief that it's not a good idea for women to serve alongside men in deployed units. Of course, that's not my official position ...
Drafting females would require a whole-sale paradigm shift for the military establishment ...
First -- to reinstate a draft ... "don't ask, don't tell" will have to go away. Because, currently, as you all know, we do separate personnel should they make an admission of homosexuality. No one really wants to deal with this issue right now ...
The pregancy factor. For the past many years since I've been on active duty, I cannot begin to count the numbers of females I've seen get out of deployments by becoming pregnant (usually, of course, with the help of willing active duty male personnel). Think we can draft women and legally stop them from becoming pregnant? I think not.
I don't believe it would "change the way we fight wars." As long as men serving alongside women had confidence that the women could do their jobs when the fighting started.
I have seen, over the years, a number of females who could outperform males ... especially in fields where calmness, common sense, and thinking ability are required (ATC, AIC, intel, ops, supply, admin, medical) ... of course, women can serve, even on the front lines. I've also seen female divers and EOD techs who've been quite competent. I've witnessed any number of females who could outshoot many males with 1911s, M9s, M-14s, M-16s and M-4s.
If a female could perform requisite tasks/requirements (especially physical) up to the same standards as a male -- no gender-norming -- they should be allowed to serve in any job. Except ...
One thing no one addresses though -- and I see it when deployed -- when males and females serve together, away from their home base/home port -- the whole sex thing becomes totally magnified. When, previously, there were no females present, men could deal with sexual abstinence. Add a handful of women to the mix during a deployment -- there will be sexual tension. This, to me is a big factor in my belief that it's not a good idea for women to serve alongside men in deployed units. Of course, that's not my official position ...
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