Women to be drafted?

[onerifle]

Hmm...I wonder how this'll play, it being an election year and all...


IN THE MILITARY
U.S. proposes drafting women
Plan would require updates by young people with critical skills

Posted: May 3, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38305


© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com




The Selective Service System has proposed revamping the draft to include the registration of women, expanding the age limits and requiring that young Americans keep the government informed about those critical skills most valuable to the military.

The proposal, presented to the Pentagon before the invasion of Iraq by the agency's acting Director Lewis Brodsky, would extend the age of draft registration to 34 years old, up from 25. It was revealed by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, which obtained the plan under the Freedom of Information Act.

"In line with today's needs, the Selective Service System's structure, programs and activities should be re-engineered toward maintaining a national inventory of American men and, for the first time, women, ages 18 through 34, with an added focus on identifying individuals with critical skills," the agency said in a Feb. 11, 2003, proposal presented to senior Pentagon officials, according to the Sunday editions of the paper.

According to the report, Brodsky and Richard Flahavan, the agency's director of public and congressional affairs, reviewed the six-page proposal with Pentagon officials including Charles Abell, principal deputy undersecretary for personnel and readiness, and William Carr, deputy undersecretary for military personnel policy.

The agency officials said they would have "to market the concept" of a female draft to Congress before it could be instituted.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, have said they oppose a revival of the military draft, last used in 1973 as the American commitment in Vietnam waned, beginning the era of the all-volunteer force.

Mandatory registration for the draft was suspended in 1975 but was resumed in 1980 by President Carter after the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. About 13.5 million men, ages 18 to 25, currently are registered with the Selective Service.

At present, the Selective Service is authorized to register only young men and they are not required to inform the government about any professional skills. The agency has in place a special registration system to draft health-care personnel in more than 60 specialties into the military if necessary in a crisis.

 

[mercedesrules]

keep the government informed about those critical skills most valuable to the military.

Women have always had skills valuable to lonely soldiers away from home.

 

[fjolnirsson]

While I disagree with the idea of conscripted troops, and don't want anyone forced into combat(least of all my daughter), this was the part that really disturbed me:

would extend the age of draft registration to 34 years old, up from 25.

That is a HUGE chunk of the population gone away to war.

 

[Sean Smith]

Red herring. The draft isn't going to be reinstated. So everyone can quit going mental over its imminent expansion.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Sean:

No, no, it IS GOING TO BE REINSTATED! It is! And all the evidence you provide to the contrary is MEANINGLESS!

THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE YOUR DAUGHTER OUT OF COLLEGE, GIVE HER A BAD EVIL ASSAULT RIFLE AND MAKE HER FIGHT IN IRAQ! PANIC IN THE STREETS! BUSH IS EVIL!



Seriously, guys. There's not going to be a draft. The only people talking about a draft are a couple of stupid politicians in Washington (Democrats). The president hasn't mentioned a draft, the military has explicitly said they don't want a draft, and troop strength could easily be bolstered by congress raising the approved troop limits.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The acting director of the Selective Service System recommends changing the system to include females (something he has no ability to actually do) and suddenly "IN THE MILITARY: U.S. proposes drafting women"?? This must be one of those reporters that uses the nightshift janitor as a "top source in the White House".

 

[onerifle]

Here's the original story, plus link:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/171522_draft01.html


Sean- exactly what makes you so sure it won't be re-instated?


Selective Service eyes women's draft

The proposal would also require registration of critical skills

Saturday, May 1, 2004

By ERIC ROSENBERG
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER WASHINGTON BUREAU

WASHINGTON -- The chief of the Selective Service System has proposed registering women for the military draft and requiring that young Americans regularly inform the government about whether they have training in niche specialties needed in the armed services.

The proposal, which the agency's acting Director Lewis Brodsky presented to senior Pentagon officials just before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, also seeks to extend the age of draft registration to 34 years old, up from 25.

The Selective Service System plan, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, highlights the extent to which agency officials have planned for an expanded military draft in case the administration and Congress would authorize one in the future.

"In line with today's needs, the Selective Service System's structure, programs and activities should be re-engineered toward maintaining a national inventory of American men and, for the first time, women, ages 18 through 34, with an added focus on identifying individuals with critical skills," the agency said in a Feb. 11, 2003, proposal presented to senior Pentagon officials.

Brodsky and Richard Flahavan, the agency's director of public and congressional affairs, reviewed the six-page proposal with Pentagon officials responsible for personnel issues. They included Charles Abell, principal deputy undersecretary for personnel and readiness, and William Carr, deputy undersecretary for military personnel policy.

The agency officials acknowledged that they would have "to market the concept" of a female draft to Congress, which ultimately would have to authorize such a step.

Dan Amon, a spokesman for the Selective Service System, based in Arlington, Va., said that the Pentagon has taken no action on the proposal to expand draft registration.

"These ideas were only being floated for Department of Defense consideration," Amon said. He described the proposal as "food for thought" for contingency planning.

Navy Lt. Cmdr. Jane Campbell, a spokeswoman for the Defense Department, said the Pentagon "has not agreed to, nor even suggested, a change to Selective Service's current missions."

Nonetheless, Flahavan said the agency has begun designing procedures for a targeted registration and draft of people with computer and language skills, in case military officials and Congress authorize it.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, say they oppose a revival of the military draft, last used in 1973 as the American commitment in Vietnam waned, beginning the era of the all-volunteer force.

Mandatory registration for the draft was suspended in 1975 but was resumed in 1980 by President Carter after the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. About 13.5 million men, ages 18 to 25, currently are registered with the Selective Service.

"I don't know anyone in the executive branch of the government who believes that it would be appropriate or necessary to reinstitute the draft," Rumsfeld said last month.

At present, the Selective Service is authorized to register only young men and they are not required to inform the government about any professional skills. Separately, the agency has in place a special registration system to draft health care personnel in more than 60 specialties into the military if necessary in a crisis.

Some of the skill areas where the armed forces are facing "critical shortages" include linguists and computer specialists, the agency said. Americans would then be required to regularly update the agency on their skills until they reach age 35.

Individuals proficient in more than one critical skill would list the skill in which they have the greatest degree of competency.

 

[HankB]

I can see all kinds of problems in the ranks if they were to start drafting educated people in their 30's. They'll have people who 1) don't want to be there; 2) can think for themselves; and 3) will cause morale problems with everyone else.

I don't see a draft being reinstated.

 

[nero45acp]

I don't foresee the draft being reenacted, but if it was I think that women should be included. Equal rights entail equal responsibilities.



nero

 

[RED-DOG 40]

Hmmmm...., I got it. Leave our young people ,(35& under), here to run the US and send us old farts, no questions asked.

..... .......

 

[Barbara]

I think women should be eligible, if and when men are drafted.

Right now, I know more women (3) in Iraq/Afghanistan than I do men (2) anyway.

What scares the hell out me, to be honest, is not being drafted. It's having some other stupid country attack us, forcing to us to start a draft, and having my kid go. If he wants to join the military, that's one thing..going as a draftee is hell. I'd take his place if I could, believe me.

 

[mercedesrules]

(HankB) I can see all kinds of problems in the ranks if they were to start drafting educated people in their 30's. They'll have people who 1) don't want to be there; 2) can think for themselves; and 3) will cause morale problems with everyone else.

...because what is needed in war is dumbbells that want to fight, can't think for themselves and won't make waves.

 

[striker3]

...because what is needed in war is dumbbells that want to fight, can't think for themselves and won't make waves.

It is not that, it is just that for older recruits, the adjustment is difficult. They go from being completely on their own, living their own lives, to being told what to do, when to do it, and how it is going to get done. I am not talking about their job, I am talking about how they live their personal lives. From when to get up in the morning, to having someone inspect their rooms, to the amount of alcohol they are allowed to have in their possesion at one time. Even, at times, to how late they can stay out. Imagine yourself a 30 year old Pvt having a midnight curfew while I, a 22 year old Sgt can come in at 0500.

It is hard enough for volunteers who come in in their mid to late 20's to make the adjustment. I don't want to know what I would have to go through to get a draftee, who doesn't want to be there in the first place, to adjust.

But the point is moot. At least for the USMC, we have filled our qutoa for Infantry well into next fiscal year. We don't need a draft. I am proud to say that everyone I fight with, WANTS to be on my right and left.

 

[Nightcrawler]

...because what is needed in war is dumbbells that want to fight, can't think for themselves and won't make waves.

My goodness, what a patent loathing of our Armed Forces you have...and you also obviously have no concept of what wins wars.

 

[HBK]

Women don't belong in combat.

 

[Gewehr98]

I can't believe this is posted on THR:

Women have always had skills valuable to lonely soldiers away from home.

 

[Jim March]

NASCAR drivers are getting drafted!

 

[HBK]

The only draft I'm concerned with happened a couple of weeks ago. The Titans did a great job, too.

 

[Oleg Volk]

Just had this discussion with a friend yesterday...draft...just want we need, more authority and control over our lives by Washington! I stand by my original estimate of the moral justification for the practice. I also wish to point out that the economic repercussions would be extremely severe. And, lastly, I would much rather take my chances fighting Stateside than go to Thirdworldistan on a whim of the US Congress or the likes of Slick Willie or Bush or Kerry.

Proposing to draft women is a great idea, because it increases the number of people opposed to the whole enterprise.

 

[atek3]

what oleg said.

Women have always had skills valuable to lonely soldiers away from home.

I kinda think he was being facetious.

Seriously, guys. There's not going to be a draft. The only people talking about a draft are a couple of stupid politicians in Washington (Democrats).

Don't forget Chuck Hagel R-Nebraska, he's been the moron making waves recently.

Answer this one for me, Stop-Loss orders cannot continue forever, if iraq continues to be a quagmire (which in all likelyhood it will), and more and more soldiers leave the armed services, how will the US avoid the draft if we wish to continue occupying iraq. I know the pentagon is anti-draft as are most rational politians (I know, an oxymoron, but bear with me here), but does anyone here know, are more people enlisting or leaving right now?

atek3

 

[Oleg Volk]

A gentleman I met yesterday (lately of 101st in Iraq) said that he expected a draft within three years because of the net loss of army personnel. If he is right, that is bad news indeed.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Congress has been asking Rumsfeld for a couple years now if he wants more troops, (i.e., a larger authorized military troop strength).

Up until recently, he's said "no". Rumsfeld could probably get higher authorized troop levels from Congress if he wanted to, but it's not happening. Our military was twice as big in 1990 as it is now, and there was no draft then, either.

All they'd have to do is raise the authorized troop levels and mount a recruiting campaign. People must remember, the strength of the military is determined by Congress. If strength levels are met, recruiters turn people away.

The Defense Department published a document that someone else linked to in another thread on this, specifically stating that a draft would be a bad idea. The DoD doesn't want it. The President hasn't said anything about it. Rumsfeld hasn't said anything about it.

The only people that are seriously talking about the draft are some dumb@$$ed congressmen and a spattering of left-wing publications. It's an election year, so the story goes like this:

"George Bush will make a draft and force you to go to Iraq. Vote for John Kerry."

But, given the size of the military we maintained in the 80s, it's apparent that all that is needed for a large military is adequate funding and a recruiting drive. Conscription is not needed, nor considered desirable, and is not being sought by the Defense Department. Furrthermore, it'd be political suicide in the current environment.

The Army and the Marines have both reported that they're meeting their retention goals; in any case one of the reasons people are getting out is the heavy rotation in and out of the middle east. If the authorized troop levels were raised, and the number of active divisions expanded (this would take some time, but not any more time than conscription), then the rotation schedule could be less hectic and any retention problems that do exist would probably be greatly reduced.

Basically, we're overstretched. We've got too small of an armed force to conduct operations in Afghanistan and Iraq while maintaining a significant presence in Korea and a smaller presence in the Balkans.

Given that situation, if I were In Charge(tm), I would consider doing the following:

1. Expand the authorized troop levels; try to get the Army two or three more combat divisions
2. Unilaterally withdraw from all "peacekeeping" operations in the Balkans region
3. Start making preparations for the complete withdrawal from South Korea. Much American blood has been spilled for the peninsula and we've been protecting it for decades. Perhaps it's time that South Korea defended itself?

 

[Viking6]

In my not so humble opinion, we don't need a draft. Short of a WWII scenario, I never see the need for a draft except for political reasons. If there ever was a reinstatement of the draft, then women should be included. As a matter of fact, to my knowledge, all 18 year old men still have to register with the Selective Service. I'm surprised someone hasn't "sued" the government because it requires males only to register.

 

[Leatherneck]

Nightcrawler, Sean Smith and others have it right. Nobody here in the Pentagon wants or needs the draft to be anything more than it is now: a strategic asset to rely on only after some cataclysmic world event. Not the "police action" type of operations going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. All four services are meeting their recruiting goals, and there are even backlogs of young men and women waiting for boot camp or more advanced traing. The SSS is a civlian organization outside the control of the military. It is made up of ciivilians selected by their communities.

This is utter alarmism designed to sell newspapers.

TC
TFL Survivor

 

[HankB]

(mercedesrules) what is needed in war is dumbbells that want to fight . . .

Hmmm . . . interesting choice of words. But let's see . . . I think it's pretty much a "given" that a volunteer is going to be more motivated than an unwilling conscript. And the military is a bit selective about who it inducts these days, as "dumbbells" have problems operating weapons, radios, etc.

(mercedesrules)...can't think for themselves...

A younger person, fresh out of high school, around 18 or 19 years old, is still pretty impressionable, so he'll be more easily molded into what the military wants than an old codger of 34 with a graduate degree and 10 or more years in the workplace.

(mercedesrules) . . . and won't make waves.

The old conscripted codger may decide that a political decision NOT to level some turd world dungheap isn't worth his life, so a stint in the brig, Leavenworth, or Canada may be preferable to following orders likely to get him killed. (Note that our future hypothetical draftee is likely to see service in some place OTHER than Iraq or Afghanistan.) And there's the previously mentioned morale issue of a newly inducted private in his 30's under the command of a 19 or 20 year old noncom . . . especially if the old timer was in management.

Now, factor in the problems of women being drafted . . . no, I don't see them starting up the draft again for anything less than a WWII-type of situation.