Dragoon Droop

[Ginormous]

Shot this group yesterday at about 20 yards with my Dragoon, Voodoochile's cast 220 gr. conicals, 45 gr. Swiss 3Fg, and RWS 1075 caps. Took some serious umpph on the loading lever to get it all in with a lube pill. Couldn't get the target out to the 25 yd mark because the conveyor stop switch was maladjusted or just plain wet. Anyway, I wasn't able to duplicate this group again, as the weather generally turned more and more moist, and as everyone knows, the wetter it gets, the worse I shoot.

All in all, I was really pleased. Until the range got busy, that is.

My Dragoon seems to have a case of the Walker Wilt, or Dragoon Droop, or whatever you call it, at charges over 40 gr. The loading lever just drops. The leather shoelace isn't just for good looks either. Stopped the problem cold, although some of the other guys at the range laughed and made fun of my hog leg laying on the table tied up like that, or said it was falling apart, or similar unbecoming remarks. Ok, fine, I'm a child of a greater God. Laugh it up. Well, I kept at it with my '58 until I was too embarrassed to bring the targets back in because of my crappy groups. When it became apparent I wasn't going to get groups like my first, I grabbed the big Colt, loaded up 50 gr. and a round ball and let loose with 6 as fast as I could draw a bead. You could hear a cricket chirp after that. Someone down the range said "D@#n dawg, what was THAT?" Slowly the 9's and 45's went back to their pop, pop, pop. I packed up and went inside to pay my range bill.

The range owner, a retired police officer, calls me the guy with the big boomer and compares the concussion inside the range building with a S&W 500 another patron brings in. Nothing like a big Colt to give you the warm fuzzies on an otherwise bad day.

 

[mykeal]

Try using a little solvent on the latch at the end of the loading lever, work the catch a few times while the solvent is still wet, then dry it out and put a little drop of oil in it. Just an idea.

 

[Ginormous]

I'll give it a shot Mykeal, although I keep my guns well shampooed and lubricated with Ballistol. The darn thing latches up smoothly and tight as a tick, but big loads still cause it to droop. I've thought of punching out the retaining pin and either stretching or replacing the spring to get more tension against the retaining latch. Probably a job for the gunsmith though, as I don't have a drift small enough to punch the pin.

The leather shoelace really adds a bit of the wild bunch look though, don't you think?

 

[Smokin_Gun]

cast 220 gr. conicals, 45 gr. Swiss 3Fg

Ginomous, that 45gr is good for a Round Ball load, but I loaded 35gr of Goex in my Carts for the Dragoon and it was a very stout load.
I'd drop the charge for accuracy and tighter groups.
I've experimented with 200gr conicals in the Dragoon C&B to no avail...the Round Balls with 35-40gr beat the conicals every time...
Those were my findings other's may vary.
The 3rd Gen Colt also dropped the lever with 45-50gr & the Conicals...at 35gr that went away :O)

 

[Ginormous]

Good advice SG. If we ever dry out down here, I'll intend to be very concise about working up loads for both round balls and conicals that give the best groups. My experience has also been mild to moderate loads for best grouping. It's something I am really looking forward to doing.

But until then, there's supposed to a kaboom! An earth shattering kaboom!

http://www.rowan.sensation.net.au/kaboom.html

 

[Smokin_Gun]

"My isn't there a beautiful Earth out tonite?"
I'm gonna nickname you Kaboom... :O)

http://www.rowan.sensation.net.au/kaboom.html

 

[AdmiralB]

I recently bought a 3rd Dragoon, and I had the same problem with the lever.

I'd read a post here suggesting some machine work on the barrel stud, improving the mating surfaces. I tried that, and it didn't help a bit.

Then I thought about it, and decided the problem had to be the resonance of the whole assembly - so I put a stiffer spring in the lever.

I've been repairing guitars for over twenty years, and I have a huge 'junk drawer'. Pickup mounting springs for humbucking pickups are almost exactly the same size as the lever spring in the Dragoon (can't speak to the other models), so I found one wound with a little heavier wire and a little longer, and swapped it.

Went back to the range, six cylinders of 50gr. Swiss 3F and .457 balls, not a single drop.

If you wanna try that, I have some more springs - PM me, I can send you one. You can buy a punch that fits the pin at any hardware store.

FWIW, it looks like the design evolved...I see some 3rd replicas with the later horizontal-style catch. In fact, Uberti's website pictures the 3rd models with that setup, although their BOMs show only the vertical parts.

 

[Ginormous]

AdmiralB, that is very kind of you! PM sent.

I was really hoping to get a workable solution that didn't involve filing a sharper lip on the retention clip, and looks like you have found it. I wasn't convinced the filing job was going to work anyway, and then I'd still have to touch things up with a cold blue.

This forum is a tremendous resource, with a great group of participants. I feel very fortunate to have found it.

 

[Voodoochile]

WOW, that is a healthy load there Ginormous, makes me want to steal my Dragoon back from my brother to try it out.

Glad you like the conicals..

 

[Ginormous]

Voodoochile, it has to be experienced to be appreciated! There's just no comparison between the Remmie '58 and the Colt Dragoon for Boom factor. After experiencing it and the effect it can have on a busy range, I can only imagine a fully loaded Walker would have to be mighty impressive experience indeed.

Now to get a second Dragoon and snubbie it - oh yeah, now that's what I am talking about!

 

[AdmiralB]

I can only imagine a fully loaded Walker would have to be mighty impressive experience indeed.

The most I can get in my Walker is 55gr. I could get a few more, but then there'd be no room for the lube pill.

You can reduce the drop on Walkers with some tweaking of the latch, but I don't think you can totally eliminate it. On full-power loads, mine will drop on the third round. First shot, it drops a little, second a bit more, then on the third it falls. Latch it up, lather, rinse, repeat.

Puts a lot of stress on the latch dovetail too, I've had to re-stake mine and JB Weld the latch in place.

 

[Ginormous]

Funny thing AdmiralB, my Dragoon latch lip worked loose in the dovetail the first time I took it out. It was snug, but would slip back and forth almost like it was intended to do that.

I slipped it out and cleaned the dovetail and mating face on the latch with acetone, coated both faces with Loctite Red, and slipped it back in. Wiped off the excess, and no more movement. The nice thing about using Loctite Red is it is removable again by using a heat gun on both parts. Hopefully I won't have to, but at least the option is there.

 

[AdmiralB]

I've had to fix the barrel stud on four of my five guns. I tighten the dovetail with a brass punch, then use JB Weld. If I have to get it out, I can, but it stays put otherwise.

 

[Ginormous]

Man Admiral, I am so afraid to do something permanent to any of my pistols for fear of marring the finish, breaking a part or just generally pulling a boner that I'll regret later. It's good to know that JB Weld isn't as permanent as I thought it would be. I've never used it before, but I've certainly seen it in hardware stores and always wondered about its' strength and permanence. This adds another tool in the fixit bag of home gunsmithing for me.

It seems to be holding my new shortened barrel in place quite well actually. Can't wait to shoot it!



(With apologies to Mykeal and his 3rd Model dragoon)

 

[AdmiralB]

Someone on this site said something to the effect of, owning Italian revolvers will make you a gunsmith eventually.

It's true. If you want to keep them immaculate, hang them on the wall. If you're going to shoot them, they're gonna show it.