Drilling w/ .22 conversion kits for firearms

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sgratra

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I saw a guy at the range with a .22 conversion kit on an AR-15. He was going through a very methodical drilling process. He would start with the barrel pointed low, then bring it up and quickly fire two shots (very fast), then point the barrel back down. He would also drill on clearing misfires and quick reloading.

It got me thinking that maybe I should purchase a conversion kit for my firearm. I own a Glock 27. (Compact 40.cal) I am an ok shot but I'd really like to increase my speed.

Can training w/ a .22 conversion kit really take your shooting to the next level?
Does this apply to handguns too?
Any drills you guys recommend?

Any thoughts are welcome.
 
That's very similar to a drill I did a lot on active duty. One addition: flipping the safety off with my thumb every time I raise the barrel.
 
I also own a Glock 27 and have tossed around the idea of a conversion kit. However I haven't found any available for the subcompacts yet. Cenier seems to have one of the better ones for Glock. I believe that accuracy comes from doing the right thing over and over. .22 caliber ammo is a great training tool for better accuracy. I have a FAL chambered in .308 and it jumps when I shoot it, however when I practice with a Ruger 20/22 prior to shooting the FAL I am a much better shot.
 
I think ANY shooting or dry firing will improve your skill. I saw where a guy from Japan won or placed near the top at a big match by practicing with air soft guns at home. That was all he could legally shoot there. 22s are great because of ammo costs, just don't do all your shooting with the 22.
 
As said..

any shooting and dryfiring will help your shooting...

the trick is to have a plan for your practice and to track your progress..

22 conversion are great..you do not fatigue as fast shooting one and they can be fun too..
I usually drill with my .22 conversion shooting groups and shooting a falling plate rack..usually 25 to 45 yards.

a buddy of mine just got a .22 conversion for his AR15 and it is great..
 
I can usually pickup a 500 round box of quality .22lr from Walmart for about $10.

That is a lot more shooting than the same $10 in centerfire ammo.

Definitely helped me keep current even when I was not able to afford to shoot "real ammo".
 
I saw where a guy from Japan won or placed near the top at a big match by practicing with air soft guns at home.

Tatsuya Sakai from Japan won the 2004 Steel Challenge. He supposedly practiced at home with airsoft and arrived here a month early to practice with a borrowed center-fire pistol.
 
22 conversons

any shooting will help thats no joke the idea behind using 22 is for cost as for why does it increse skill is this you can fine tune for lack of a better word you sight picture making you more accurate and see your progress and at 15 dollars for 500 rounds it makes for some verry inexpenhisive pratice that can pay huge dividends down the road when it counts but as was said dont just use the 22 shoot some regular rounds so you know how the recoil is going to affect you and your follow up shots
 
Thanks for the replys

I found a conversion kit.
http://www.advantagearms.com/conversion_kit.html

Its pretty simple, it just slides on. I am still mulling it over.

I know that it could improve my trigger control, but it wouldn't really teach me to controll the recoil.

I should probably invest in another class before I invest in the convesion kit.

Thanks again guys.
 
Taurus 617 CCW said:
I also own a Glock 27 and have tossed around the idea of a conversion kit. However I haven't found any available for the subcompacts yet. Cenier seems to have one of the better ones for Glock..

Ciener makes an absolutely LOUSY kit for Glocks.

Advantage Arms makes a VERY good kit for Glocks.

Go do a search on Glock Talk under "conversion kits" or "Advantage Arms" or "AACK"

Stay away from Ciener at all costs.
 
.22 conversion units

This is a topic near and dear to my heart. I started shooting .22 conversion units about 25 years ago, when I was a poor student. About the same time Jerry Usher had an article in (I think) the American Handgunner ANNUAL advocating the use of what he called "understudy" guns for economical practice.

During my military service I used an M-16 (three different models, actually) and carried (in order) an S&W 15 revolver, an M1911A1 and then an M9. I have personal examples of all of those guns.

Over the years I acquired a S&W 18 (.22 cal combat masterpiece), a Colt Ace (.22 on the o frame) and a Ciener and then later a Beretta conversion unit for the M9. And a Ciener and then a Colt conversion unit for the AR-15.
(I also have a S&W 650 in .22 to go with my S&W 60 HB 3 inch, and an argentine .22 conversion unit for my Browning P35). Back in the 80s we had access to the 50 foot indoor range at the local ARNG armory, which had a mild steel backstop and was limited to .22s. Shot thousands of rounds in there, and at the ROTC range on campus (I was enlisted, but I had a friend who was in the ROTC and he was able to get me in a few times) which was also limited to .22 because of a soft steel backstop and questionable ventilation . . .

I've done LOTS of shooting with all of them. I find it works best to do accuracy drills with the .22s. They don't have much recoil, but the balance and trigger pull and sight picture are all the same. For practice with the bigger guns I usually use an IPSC or IDPA target or an NRA B-34 (1/2 scale) target. For the .22s I usually use a B-34 or a B-29 or TQ-20 (both 1/3rd scale). I basically do my same set of drills at the same distances, but on a much smaller target. It helps a LOT to keep in tune and not spend as much money doing it.

The Ciener unit for the Beretta M9 is servicable. The Beretta factory unit works better, and does have a hammer decocker/safety, just like the original.

The Ciener unit for the Glock is marginally reliable. Mine worked better after I had the chamber and the sides of the extractor where it pivots in the frame polished. If I clean it every 150 rounds or so, use good quality ammo and lube it well, it works reasonably well. But not great. I don't have any personal experience with the Advantage Arms conversion units, but they're supposed to be much better.

I bought my conversion for the AR-15 in 1982 from Bro-Caliber International in Cincinnati. It was very rough and didn't work very well. Based on a 1985 article in SOLDIER OF FORTUNE I sent my conversion unit off to John Norrell Arms (now in Little Rock, Arkansas) and paid him almost $300 to tune it up so it would work. IT WAS MONEY WELL SPENT! As long as I keep the unit reasonably clean and well lubed and use good ammo, it'll shoot all day every day. (www,johnnorrellarms.com) (I don't know if he still adjusts conversion units like that or not . . . )

I also have a Ciener converter for an AK-47 and an H&K factory converter for the model 91.

Of course, the S&W .22 revolvers are a joy to shoot. Particularly the model 18.

The Argentine conversion unit for the Browning HP is pretty good as well. Like all the rest, kept clean, lubed well and fed good quality ammo, it shoots fairly reliably. (I bought mine from Sportsman's Guide about 5 years ago. There was another importer as well, but I haven't seen them advertised for quite a while now)

Peter Stahl in Germany also made conversion units for the Sig P6 (M225) and various of the Smith & Wesson auto pistols. I'm not sure they were ever imported into the US in any numbers. I tried to order a .22 conversion for my S&W 39 about 20 years ago but was unsuccessful.

Once in a while some importer will have a batch of .22 converters for the P38 pistol. I've never seen one and have no idea how well they work.
 
I am a believer in the value of a conversion kit as a training tool. I have a Marvel Unit 1 that sits on a dedicated Caspian frame as a 1911 training tool. I use it to work on sight picture (a real PITA for those of us with bifocals), trigger control, and follow-through. I have not tried to draw it from a holster, but I could see that as a logical next step. My typical practice regime is twenty or so rounds from my carry gun, a few hundred from the Marvel/Caspian, and a few more rounds from my carry gun.

I also like the "understudy" concept. I have a Marlin 39A that functions just like my Marlin 1894 rifle and a S&W K-22 Masterpiece that works just like any centerfire S&W revolver.

Good training and good fun.
 
I've got one of Jon Ciener's .22 kits for my 1911s... Lots of practice, little money. His stuff's built nice, with good attention to detail. They do, however (and any firearm can be like this), tend to be a little finicky about ammo... If you have one that isn't functioning in an optimal fashion, get a few varieties next time you visit Wally World, and try 'em out. I know Jon, and he stands behind himself... Give him a call, and there maybe an easy fix.
 
I don't see the point in praciticing with a lower cal version of your gun.
Take a gun and convert it to .22, and shoot it and get good with it...and then convert it back to .45 or .223 and hardly anything you learned with it being .22 will apply.
The recoil will be different, and the ballistics will be different.
The only thing that'd apply would be mag swapping and clearing/FTF drills.
And with the different shapes of ammo and magazines, that might cause problems too.
 
I don't see the point in praciticing with a lower cal version of your gun.

I've gotta disagree with that statement. Any practice with a firearm is good for developing skills in trigger control, target acquisition, transitioning between targets, you name it. I shoot steel challenge type competitions usually with an open type revolver but the few times I do take an auto I am much fast and proficient with them then I was before I started shooting competitively. Practicing often with a light recoiling gun witch uses cheap ammo is much better then practicing occasionally with more expensive ammo. I take a .22 with me every time I visit the range. YMMV.

Chris
 
Yeah, I disagree too. I am a way better shot now because of my practice with a .22LR.

I'm a firm believer in starting out small and working your way up. Taking recoil out of the equation gives you more practice on your trigger control and trains you to not flinch.
 
Yea, I guess so.
But still, the difference in recoil makes me think that it's not the best idea.
But I do see the perks*...just forgot about them above. ;D

*Handling the gun/getting used to it, programming motions, etc.
 
Add up the cost of shooting 10k-20k in .45 a year.

If you can afford that, then by all means do shoot that much, I used to.

I worked part time at a gunshop just to pay for all the shooting I did, in addition to my regular full time job.

It does get expensive.
 
I use 9mm--it's cost is one of the reasons I chose it. I do not have to invest in an expensive conversion for training. .223 is analogous.
 
Too bad no one makes floating chamber .22 conversions anymore. Those add quite a bit more recoil, making the practice more similar to firing regular caliber ammo.
 
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