This seems to be one of those myths/facts along the same vein as the dry firing debate, but I don't hear much about it and I'm not sure what the consensus is on it. I'm wondering whether repeated releasing of the slide or bolt of a rifle without any ammo/snap cap will hurt the gun. Specifically I'm thinking of the AR15 and modern service pistols. It seems to me that during normal firing the slide/bolt velocity would exceed the velocity from rest, and so this shouldn't be a problem, but I could be wrong.
Dropping slide on empty chamber?
- Thread starter sawdeanz
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Ibmikey
Member
I am a worrier but i can find better things to worry about than are often presented on the forums, is very entertaining however. I received a 1911a1 through DCM in 1963, besides the untold numbers of rounds through it i love to work the slide often releasing with the slide stop closing under spring tension which i have done a bazillion+ 1 times. The pistol shoots like it did fifty odd years ago, rattles just the same and has never had a part changed. If you cannot snap the slide, pull a trigger DA or field strip numerous times in front of the tv......then why did God allow us to create firearms?
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
There basis for the "myth" isn't really mythical, but it is very limited. 1911 pistols (and maybe other SAs, I'm not sure) that had finely tuned trigger jobs could experience battering of those super-polished sear edges when the slide slammed home. So the practice was to hold the trigger back as you gently ease closed the slide.
Standard rack-grade 1911s without fine tune jobs don't seem to have been particularly vulnerable, nor are all the other common handguns.
No semi-auto rifle I'm aware of has any problem with this at all. CERTAINLY not an AR.
Standard rack-grade 1911s without fine tune jobs don't seem to have been particularly vulnerable, nor are all the other common handguns.
No semi-auto rifle I'm aware of has any problem with this at all. CERTAINLY not an AR.
Ibmikey
Member
Way to go Sam!
1911 guy
Member
Like Sam, the only instance I can think of of a 1911 with a trigger job. The AR15 fire controls are much different and I don't see how they'd be subjected to the same "sear bounce" that concerns the pistol.
Bigdog57
Member
Another gun myth bites the dust.
22 years USAR - the last six months on gate security at Ft. Benning, when the weapons are returned to the armory DAILY the weapon is cleared by you, then again by the armorer to double check. The slide/BCG is retracted full length and released to slam home, empty chamber or not.
No issues.
It's been military practice since I held an M1 in high school. Just don't get your thumb in the way.
No issues.
It's been military practice since I held an M1 in high school. Just don't get your thumb in the way.
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The Bushmaster
Member
I have a Colt 1911 (Series 80) that I purchased new in 1990. It went to one of the "best 100 NRA gunsmiths" for a trigger job. Never concerned myself with releasing the slide stop or slingshotting the slide on an empty chamber. I still get compliments on the trigger pull. Still breaks like glass with no movement before or after the trigger is pulled.
cc-hangfire
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Thanks for the answers above.
Another thought: my firearms are machines, like my car. If a part wears out or breaks, I just replace it. It'll cost some money, but it's not a big deal. I've bought some old, "gunsmith special" guns cheap that needed firing pins or springs or buffers to get back to full function. If a man can build it, a man can fix it.
Another thought: my firearms are machines, like my car. If a part wears out or breaks, I just replace it. It'll cost some money, but it's not a big deal. I've bought some old, "gunsmith special" guns cheap that needed firing pins or springs or buffers to get back to full function. If a man can build it, a man can fix it.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Theoretically the action is cushioned when feeding a round from the magazine and there is more possibility that an action may be battered more by dropping bolt or slide on an emply chamber. That's a theoretical possibility, but practically the forces involved are not enough to worry about.
Now, slamming a bolt or slide on a chambered round in a controlled feed design (where the cartridge rim is supposed to slide up under the extractor as it is fed from the magazine) is a real problem (I'm thinking Mauser 98 or Colt 1911). That warning may get confused with the idea of slamming the bolt/slide on an empty chamber.
Now, slamming a bolt or slide on a chambered round in a controlled feed design (where the cartridge rim is supposed to slide up under the extractor as it is fed from the magazine) is a real problem (I'm thinking Mauser 98 or Colt 1911). That warning may get confused with the idea of slamming the bolt/slide on an empty chamber.
gwpercle
Member
I think it depends on the firearm.
Have heard don't do it with a 1911 but the other day I down loaded the Walther factory Instruction Manual for an old P-38 my dad had given me. WWII vintage , military surplus from the 1960's , came with no instructions or anything. Walther Manual shows loading by pulling down on the slide release lever to pick up a round from the clip and using the slide release to drop the slide on an empty chamber....I was under the impression doing this was a big no-no for all semi-auto's . But, evidently not!
Bottom line is read instruction manual or call the maker and hope you can talk to someone in the know. And when in doubt , play it safe and ease things down.
Gary
Have heard don't do it with a 1911 but the other day I down loaded the Walther factory Instruction Manual for an old P-38 my dad had given me. WWII vintage , military surplus from the 1960's , came with no instructions or anything. Walther Manual shows loading by pulling down on the slide release lever to pick up a round from the clip and using the slide release to drop the slide on an empty chamber....I was under the impression doing this was a big no-no for all semi-auto's . But, evidently not!
Bottom line is read instruction manual or call the maker and hope you can talk to someone in the know. And when in doubt , play it safe and ease things down.
Gary
Neo-Luddite
Member
I purchased a plain jane SA 1911a1 as a 21st birthday present to myself over 20 years ago. It got played with quite a bit--especially letting the slide do forward via the slide release. Over time this did result in noticeable (if minor) wear to the bottom of the slide and to the slide lock--which I had replaced at SA in Genesseo. The moral of the story is that, for me at least, I'd go with slingshotting when messing around with a 1911 once a comfortable familiarity with releasing from the slide lock is achieved. To the rest of the weapon there was no harm in evidence from the practice. I don't blanch at the thought of letting the bolts slam home on my Garands or on my kids' 6920s. Then again, I no longer see if I can tear the hell out of things as a regular practice.
Obviously, ymmv.
Obviously, ymmv.
herrwalther
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On an AR? Nope. Similar experiences to Tirod using M16s and M4s. Clear by you, clear by you with someone watching, maybe cleared again my a team or squad leader, then cleared again by the armorer at turn in. Rinse and repeat hundreds if not thousands of times.
On a 1911 I am a little more delicate. Fine tuned or off the shelf I just treat the 1911 with a bit more respect and avoid dry firing/dropping on an empty chamber. Not out of any conscious fear of damage, just habit. Dropping the slide on other semi-autos is more frequent but not overly obsessive.
On a 1911 I am a little more delicate. Fine tuned or off the shelf I just treat the 1911 with a bit more respect and avoid dry firing/dropping on an empty chamber. Not out of any conscious fear of damage, just habit. Dropping the slide on other semi-autos is more frequent but not overly obsessive.
Theohazard
Member
I just want to add to what others have said about the AR-15: In the Marine Corps infantry every rifle has had its bolt slammed home on an empty chamber tens of thousands of times probably, with no adverse effects. It's part of the process of clearing the rifle, and it's done every time the weapon changes hands. And in a line company you take your weapon out of the armory almost every day, and that means the bolt gets slammed home an awful lot.
leadcounsel
member
If your gun is damaged from releasing the slide, it's not a very robust gun. The battering it takes during shooting must be many times worse.
Lots of things to worry about in life and this is not one of them.
Lots of things to worry about in life and this is not one of them.
lysanderxiii
Member
I would hope that if some numpty gave the armorer a weapon with a loaded magazine, and the armorer pulled the slide back to find live rounds read to go, he/she wouldn't just release the charging handle....
lysanderxiii
Member
Inspection, ARMS!
Ready, Port (and, you should hear is the sound of all the bolts slamming home as one...), ARMS!
Order, ARMS!
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I agree it shouldn't hurt any modern firearm.
The match tuned wad-cutter 1911 of years gone being the exception.
But in the circles I run in, it is considered bad form.
Just like slamming the door on someones new car as hard as you can to see if the window falls out.
Makes my teeth hurt when someone does it!!
Anyway, We don't do it around here.
rc
The match tuned wad-cutter 1911 of years gone being the exception.
But in the circles I run in, it is considered bad form.
Just like slamming the door on someones new car as hard as you can to see if the window falls out.
Makes my teeth hurt when someone does it!!
Anyway, We don't do it around here.
rc
Big_John1961
Member
Personally, robustness notwithstanding, I think it's rude to do to another person's firearm, meaning if they are letting you handle it or vice versa. I'm not overly concerned about damaging my Glock by letting my slide slam home, but I'm just in the habit of easing the slides down on all my pistols.
Whether it is dry firing, or letting a slide slam closed I have never gotten into the habit of either.
I don't know if anyone has actual test data to define the effect on any particular model of gun, but I still don't like banging to pieces of gun metal together - period.
I know design can effect the results on particular guns, and calibers. On many you may not see negative effects ever , but some guns might not take long at all to cause damage.
My Taurus 24/7 owners manual states not to dry fire the gun. They designed and built it ,so I suspect they have a reason for pointing that out.
Bottom line is of course do what you want - it's your gun. To me dry firing, and letting the slides slam shut on an empty gun is not acceptable.
I don't know if anyone has actual test data to define the effect on any particular model of gun, but I still don't like banging to pieces of gun metal together - period.
I know design can effect the results on particular guns, and calibers. On many you may not see negative effects ever , but some guns might not take long at all to cause damage.
My Taurus 24/7 owners manual states not to dry fire the gun. They designed and built it ,so I suspect they have a reason for pointing that out.
Bottom line is of course do what you want - it's your gun. To me dry firing, and letting the slides slam shut on an empty gun is not acceptable.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Dry firing is a critical part of learning and practicing most shooting skills at moderate to advanced levels, and is required in many competition disciplines.
So that certainly is a strong indicator of what firearms to avoid for these less casual/pedestrian uses.
I'm not so sure I agree with that since most guns used by competition shooters are tuned and modified from their manufactured brothers.
I'll certainly take your word on the "need" to dry fire in that arena as I know little about it other than watching some compitition on the sports channel.
If your talking about avoiding the Taurus 24/7 because your not suppose to dry fire it, then I can only say that mine has been flawless in function using ammo that generaly chokes most 1911's without special tuning (semi wad cutters).
It's been that way out of the box and ever since. I can live with that level of function for a self defense gun. I have no need to dry fire it or let the slide slam home. If not dry firing makes me a lousy shot - well ( I guess I won't go there) .
Your needs may differ , and I do respect your opinion . Like I mentioned in my earlier post .
and
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Not in my experience. Some are, of course (and one of the most common mods would be fine tuned triggers more fragile than stock units) but I see hundreds of box stock guns for each tricked out "competition" gun. And most of the mods would have no effect at all on firing system durability.
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