Durability of the 1851

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Gundenstern

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I plan on joining the ranks of BP shooters soon and just had one question for you veterens here: how long will a 1851 navy with steel frame in .44 last?

I dont intend to be using it really regularly (just for some target shooting and such), but I've had bad luck with revolvers before and thought I'd at least ask and put my mind at ease. This particular one I'm getting is from Traditions, if that makes any difference.
 
I haven't heard anything bad about traditions revolvers. You may need to smooth the internals out just a bit to get a nice smooth action, but nearly all the replicas need that kind of work. If you're just going to be target shooting once in a while, you'll be using a light load like say 20-25gr or so and the revolver will last the rest of your lifetime and your kids lifetimes as well as long as you give it the proper care (clean it properly after use and keep it lubed to prevent rust).
Be careful though, you may get addicted to the bp guns like many of us on here. :D
 
Agree with lowkey, with ANY Colt clones, or open tops, keep loads moderate/low and you'll wear-out/break-parts from overuse LONG before you'll see any damage from pressure.

When ya want to (Inevitable) Hot-Rod/Warthog/Avenging-Angel type of loads fire off, you'll want a Remmie, Rogers&Spencer or Ruger Old Army.
 
Traditions sells Piettas primarily. I would suggest getting their "Redi Pack" kit, since it also comes with all the tools you will need.

Just remember this. Black powder residue will rust the gun. Period. It must be cleaned after shooting. More BP pistols are lost to rust than wear out from use. This includes inside as well as outside, so you will need to dissasemble the pistol, so get used to taking out every screw. That also means getting a screwdriver that fits the screwheads. Dissasemble it before every shooting it for the practice.

I might also suggest getting the .36 Navy instead of the .44. The .36 can eventually be converted to fire cartidges if you want to. Then you can shoot .38 Special bullets. Actually that is the size of the brass, because they lead flying out the barrel is .357 (a tad undersized for the .36 navy, so use hollowed base bullets if you can).

Nobody makes conversions for the .44 navy. The chambers are just too thin.
 
It would be a good idea to purchase a repair kit or an extra hand/spring , Bolt spring and loading lever screws. The springs on the Colt 51's, 60 and 61 seem to break easier and more often than on the Remington's. Mike
 
It is a good idea to have an extra on hand for any black powder gun. The reliablility is pretty good in my opinion, I got ~800 shots on my 51 pietta before the hand spring broke.
 
No, but is precursor to it. Caliber designations defy all logic and reason, note that .38 Long Colt was also an outside lubricated cartridge whereas the .38 Special has always been (Should memory serve) an INSIDE lubricated cartridge.

The value here in conversions is fact that outside lubricated projectiles are at same diameter as the cartridge case (Ala .22 Short, Long, Long-Rifle etc.) and as the .36 caliber barrels are a (VERY) nominal .375 inch the projectile diameter of the .38 Long Colt outside lubricated more closely matches the barrel inside diameter.
 
No they are not the same. The .38 LC was made in 1875. The .38 special was made in 1902 and it is not really a .38 caliber, it is a .357 caliber bullet. The converters use .38 LC ammo.
 
Are you getting a brass frame revolver?

If you are thinking about it, DON'T.

I wouldn't worry about the cartridge conversion. It's more expensive than the gun. You can buy one already converted, with a .357 bore, for 35-40% more than the conversion cylinder alone, and the conversion replica has a loading gate and an ejector rod, and fires standard .38 Special rounds accurately. Loading/unloading a Colt without a gate and rod is a tad less fun than a full-frame BP revolver with a cylinder pin designed for quick cylinder swapping (e.g. 1858 Remington).
 
Most people who HAVE brass framed revolvers are happy with them. It is just the experts who say DO NOT BUY.

THEY are happy with them, and they have gotten years of pleasure from them.

Granted, the tensile strengths of the 2 metals might, to you, seem to be way different, but should you check, you would find that it is not nearly as much as you think.

Steel, surprisingly, might be overkill. Brass has 60,000 psi tensile strength, more, I think, than the 1860 steel did. And the arbors today are made of steel that is at least that strong.

I have 2 brassers, am happy with them, do not think you would not be, if you got them cheap enough. If you are going to pay 200 for new, buy steel. You won't go wrong there, either.

Just quit crapping on them. I haven't seen many complaining that they have shot theirs to pieces, few who have had the arbor pull itself out by the roots.

Anectdotes? Sumbudy says? The Rebs made them and shot them, and some survived the Late Unpleasantness. Them particular Rebs hid under a bush, didn't shoot them, that's why they are still shootable, 140 years later?

Gimme a break!

Cheers,

George
 
I had an odd ball brass 51 that was made in 74, making it 30+ yrs old. The recoil shield was finally becoming warped, slightly to the left, but actually still shot well.

I read you guys talking about conversions, I just thought I would add that it isn't recommended to convert brass framed weapons.

But does anyone know of one that was sucessful?
 
If brass framed guns are so bad with cartridges, why is Henry still selling a brass framed Big Boy in 44 mag and 45 colt?
 
The converted .44s shoot something like 25 grains of fffg powder. The round ball shoots up to 35 grains. Way more pressure than the cartridge produces, and, per Mec, less velocity, though with a heavier bullet than the 142 grain ball.

I think it is purely a liability thing with Kirst and R&D. We don't want anybody with a brass frame to sue us. If you got a steel frame, and it bursts, well, go ahead and sue us. That we got coverage for.

Anybody that has a well shot brass 60 or 51, would you please check the recoil ring, tell me if you have a washboard effect on the ring, or if the ring is mashed back toward the recoil shield? There should be no washboard effect, the center of the cylinder, outside the ratchet, is a solid surface. It contacts a solid suface, and with not too much of a slam, the pressure is just starting tio build up, it pushes it back there, and holds it there, while the pressure goes to maximum. There is no slam-bang. Damn near no wear at all. Most of the wear is at the wedge, and half of that, at least, is pipple banging the wedge in too tight.

There is them here saying that the Colts require a hammer and drift to get the wedge loose. Back then, they rapped the outer end of the wedge with the spare cylinder, slipped it out, replaced it, tapped it, lightly, with the empty cylinder.

Some of you guys simply hammer them too tight. You are mashing the arbor slot, and you are mashing the window in the barrel extension, toward the frame. QUit hammering on them.

Cheers,

George
 
George, my Colt replica's wedge is removable and replaceable with thumb pressure alone and I ain't no gorilla! I also had (just gave it to a daughter) an old brass framed 1851 navy copy, only in .44, which I shot for about 25 years with no problems. Based on what I've read on these forums, I probably wouldn't buy a new pistol with a brass frame, but my own experience hasn't been bad with one.

Steve
 
Brass frames have had durability problems since the Civil War. Here's one example:

http://www.csarmory.org/spiller/page2.html

This revolver was a copy in brass of the Whitney steel frame revolver (basically an early version of the Remington New Model without the slick styling).

They had to enlarge the frame because the original version would burst if you used it a lot.

I'm not saying not to shoot a brass gun if you have it. However, spend the extra money for steel if you're buying a gun. It's not much money.
 
It's my understanding that with the modern brass framed repros, you only have worries if you are shooting heavy loads or wheel weight lead. Light loads won't stretch your frame and pure lead loads easy with the loading ram on the gun.
 
Steve,

That's as it should be. They don't require hammered home. Snug the sob and you are good to go.

Mine, too, a bit of thumb pressure, a good bit, when it wears till the hook does hook, but does NOT, under any circumstance require a hammer and wedge or drift or punch or whatever, to get it to come out.

I don't know, do them who can't have such weak thumbnails they can't put a couple pounds pressure on anything? They will screw up their manicures?

Cheers,

George
 
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