EAA Witness 10mm

[Anna's Dad]

I'm thinking of buying a 10mm because, well, just because.

Is the EAA Witness 10mm a decent gun? The price is surprisingly low ($365 new in box), so I'm a little skeptical as to its reliability and function.

I would really appreciate feedback from those who have owned and/or fired them.

 

[mavracer]

I like mine I have a compact 10MM.they are fine as shipped for shelf ammo,If your gonna reload hot or use Doubletap/Buffalo Bore they need heavier springs (recoil and mags) wolff makes them and they're not expensive.
I have a 22# spring in my compact and a buffer tech. buffer (for CZ75) and run 135 noslers at 1500 fps plus with no adverse effects orher than replacing buffer every 500 rounds with loads at that level.with my plinking load (165 rainier at ~1100 fps I think it would be ok for 2000 rounds.

 

[mavracer]

double post sorry

 

[wally]

In my expereince, guns are generally good mags are spotty. If you buy spare mags, EAA doesn't gaurentee they will work basically you get a disclaimer in the package that basically says "you bought it, its yours, hope it works, if not, too bad."

Here is a photo of the typical jam with stock recoil spring and mag spring shooting 200gr Blazer FMJ (not the hottest ammo my any means). Probably 75% of my mags do this about half the time once fewer than five rounds remain.

Putting in a 20 lb recoil spring from Wolff traded this for much more frequent "nose dives" into the feed ramp. Adding the strongest Wolff extra mag springs greatly reduced the frequency of the problem but did not eliminate it.

You shouldn't have to pay $20-30 for a spare mag and then need a new $5 spring to make it close to usable

IMHO for EAA Witness stick to steel frames in .45ACP or 9mm. Use the search, I've posted several times witih photos about my inabality to get my Witness-P in .40S&W to be usable.

--wally.

 

[kirkcdl]

Anna's Dad,contact MPMarty on this board.He has a Witness Elite Match and a steel frame compact in 10MM.I believe he carries the Compact daily and loves it...

Regardless of the caliber,the steel frames are the way to go with Tanfoglio,the polymer framed models are a bit spotty as far as reliability goes...

 

[mesomorphcujo]

That Witness looks like my Baby Eagle.
But if it was black it would look like my Witness. Hmm.
Sorry about getting off track there.
I like Witness but the mags do seem to be a problem.

 

[hemiram]

I don't know anyone with a 10mm, but I have a fullsize Witness in .45, and a friend has a fullsized .40 and a 9mm, and we haven't had a single problem with any of them at all, every mag works like every other mag does, perfectly.

I will probably by a 9mm one soon.

 

[wally]

I'll bet your .40 is the "small" frame, not the "large" frame that takes interchangable uppers -- these are long enough to take mags for .45ACP, .38Super & 10mm which means the shorter 9mm and .40S&W rounds have lots of free space to move around under recoil. The "short frame" guns are closer to a true clone of the CZ75.

My Witness polymer .45 has no issues either, but the question was about the 10mm. I have a .45 upper for the 10mm shown in the photo and it is 100% shooting .45ACP.

If you get good mags I don't see how you could not like the the gun -- its derived from the CZ75, had very good single action trigger that really improves with a little use, is accurate, and improves on the CZ by allowing the slide to be cycled with the thumb safety applied for loading and unloading. But if you have issues, you will regret EAA lack of support.

--wally.

 

[MikeJackmin]

I've been very happy with my full-sized Witness 10mm. Outstanding bargain for the money.

I was advised to go for the steel frame with the wonder finish (the stainless-steel-looking one). That's what I did, and it's been great.

 

[jwxspoon]

I've got a Witness Carry P in .45 ACP... after a 200-300 round break in period it became very reliable with virtually any ammo.

jw

 

[hksw]

Does anyone know if they still import the Hunter model? It is still on EAA's website but I can't find any dealer that is able to get or find one.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The Witness' are good little guns, sometimes just require a fluff'N'buff to run well on all types of ammo. I have a compact and the Limited model, my sister has a Match model (all 10mm).

Wally;

Remove the extractor and then use a dremel to slightly bevel it on the bottom. They're just too agressive. Once I did this with my Witness', they ran fine.



I apologize; I don't have much of a photo editing program.

 

[Anna's Dad]

Appreciate all the help and the caution about the mags. That's a shame that even factory mags are spotty. For the money, I may still have to give it a shot (no pun intended). I was looking at the "wonder" finish for $365, so that's the one I'd probably buy.

Thanks again,

 

[Anna's Dad]

OK, I've got a follow-up question.

Is there a difference between the full-size and compact other than magazine capacity and height/length? I'm guess not, but I'd like to be sure.

Also, I would think that neither would be a great concealed carry choice (at least not for me living in Florida and wearing shorts and a t-shirt most of the time). For that reason, I would suspect that the full-size would make more sense for me.

Can someone post the dimensions of both the full-size and the compact? I didn't see the specs on EAA's site.

Thanks.

 

[MachIVshooter]

full size specs

compact specs

The compact is pretty much a cut-down version, but it uses a double recoil spring setup, where the full size uses just one.

My compact is a winter carry piece, but since you don't have winter in FL, it probably wouldn't be the best choice. The COmpact 10mm is about the same size as many full size 9mm/.40 pistols (S&W 5906, Sig P226, etc.)

 

[MachIVshooter]

double post.

 

[atblis]

Easily

Easily the most amusing pistol you can get for well under $400 NIB.

EAA sucks. Expect nothing from them in the way of service.

Tanfoglios are generally decent. Usually surprisingly accurate. They make the odd lemon. Usually you can fluff and buff out the problems (occasionally not).

 

[wally]

Remove the extractor and then use a dremel to slightly bevel it on the bottom. They're just too agressive. Once I did this with my Witness', they ran fine.

Since I'm kind of out of ideas beyond trying to reshape the feed lips (always a sign of total desperation) I looked into your suggestion about the extractor despite the fact that if you look at my photo of the failure (typical of the only failures, all are like this) the nose of the round is well above the top of the chamber centerline.

I assembled the gun without the recoil spring, and slow cycling dummy rounds I find they snap up under the ejector smartly and the rounds enter the chamber with only a slight bump on the feed ramp. Basically if the round is held by the feed lips at all parallel to them, I don't see how its possible bullet nose can get that high and how inadaquate extractor clearance could do anything but cause a failure to go into battery hang up (with the bullet having partially entered the chamber).

I've taken my worst mag (which will have this failure almost every time) and crushed in the body at the top of the recessed area right behind the slide lock notch, to move the feed lips together slightly. This of course makes it not lock back so I filed the sides of the follower until it came up enough to lock back again.

So next time out I'll see if this mag is better or not and will pay more attension to the relationship of the extractor and the jammed cartridge.


Normally I've an very low opinion of "recoil buffers" but since a stronger recoil spring (and stronger mag sprnigs) appear to have greatly reduced the frequency of the failure, I might consider trying a recoil buffer. Problem is, I don't see enough extra rearward movement of the slide for there to be space for one -- with the recoil spring out, I could easily examine this in great detail.

Could you post a photo or a link to where you got your Witness recoil buffer?
Edit: Found this via Google, http://www.buffertech.com/stores/1/CZ-75_85_Recoil_Buffer_P9C2.cfm is this what you use?

--wally.

 

[Anna's Dad]

Thanks for the specs. I'm definately leaning towards the full-size. Does anyone own both? I'd be interested to know how perceived recoild differs between the full and compact.

Also, can anyone recommend a good source to buy the conversion kits? I don't reload, so 10mm would get pricey. I'd probably want to shoot 10mm occasionaly and 9mm more often. I see that EAA sells them, but I would expect they could be had cheaper elsewhere.

Thanks again for all the info. I'm just about sold on giving one of these guns a try.

 

[wally]

shop.reedsammo.com

Is the best place I know of for EAA conversions and mags for the "large" steel framed Witness pistols. Good folks to do business with.

Its pretty easy to buy parts directly from EAA on the web, its just they aren't a lot of help if you have problems.

--wally.

 

[Don357]

Witness P Compact .45

I've got a compact P in .45 and have had no problems except that I bought it used, so it hadn't been fired in a while before I got it and not much before then either, and the feed ramp had a little surface rust on it. After about 25 rds it limbered up and ran like a greyhound. By far the most accurate 3.5 in
.45 I've ever shot. As for the mag problem, there were some problems with the followers on the early 10mm mags, but according to sources they went to a different style follower and the problem went away. If you buy extra mags, be sure to get the ones with the RED followers. BTW there are some pics of my Itallian Companion CCW, (constant carry Witness), on the "Post your .45acp pics" of the general handgun section of this forum.

 

[Soybomb]

That Witness looks like my Baby Eagle.

My understanding is that both are more or less clones of the CZ-75.

 

[boomer1911a1]

Anna's Dad:
PM sent.

Soybomb:
You're right.

Boom

 

[jeepmor]

I have the same fs wonder finish pistol in 10mm and have the same issues. I have the Wolff extra power reoil spring pack and +5% and +10% mag springs. Still pretty spotty on the last range trip shooting RN handloads. But the brass was a bit tarnished, might have been the culprit. I was able to pump a full mag of the DT 230 WFNGC through without issue.

I really like it's feel, it is quite accurate, but still, it's been a jam-o-matic. I will have to take a look at the extractor and give it a touch up. You do need to hog the chamber entrance at 12:00 just a bit because it has a notoriously sharp edge like it was not touched up at all after being machined. I had a lot of problems with the case mouth catching here initially. I may have to touch it up a little bit more.

I'm going to have to just take this pistol and one other to the range soon and give this Witness a lot of attention and start writing stuff down to see if I can find the right combination.

Ping ReloaderFred for suggestions. He was a lot of help on tips and tricks and has a lot of Witness pistols. Also check out 10mmtalk.com and search my handle. There is a lot info there because I think this pistol was made on a Monday after a World Cup soccer match by someone who had a splitting headache of a hangover because Italy lost.

 

[Anna's Dad]

Thank you Don357, boomer1911a1 and jeepmor for all of the info/suggestions! THR is such a great site for stuff like this. I've learned more about a gun I don't have in the past few days than most people probably know about guns they've owned for years.