EAA-Zastava Model 88

[A K Church]

This is intended as cautionary, not negative.

However, let me note that I make these observations as the owner of 3 Chinese Tokarevs, and 1 Soviet.

Americans have yet to deeply embrace the Tokarev, and none have really lasted on the US commercial market. So if these guns intrigue you, now might the time to buy one. If they are on the market in June 2009 is an open question.

The fact the importer is EAA also gives me pause. My experience both as an individual and as a part-time gunshop employee, is that their concept of customer service seems to derive from Soviet bureaucrat public service norms. I have never dealt with a less responsive importer.

My WWII Soviet TT33 was well used when I got it, and I didn't have it long. Another Chinese commercial was with me less than a month. Nothing wrong with it, I was offered too much money...

The two I developed a relationship were a 1987 purchase Chinese commercial and a nearly-new Sportarms pawnshop-purchased in 2004. Both were actually made at Arsenal 66, Mukden, Manchuria. This is the 66 in a triangle marking on the left frame rear.

The former I still have. the latter was a test bed for converting from 9x19 to 7.62x25.

The 1987 gun required no breakin at all. I tore it down the day I got it, lubed it with whatever was the then-current GI gun lube (LSA?), and then took it to the range and ran 50 rounds of late '40s Soviet ferrous core through it.

The 2004 gun got around 50 rounds run through it as a 9 m/m. Only one magazine, for $125 and a nearly new gun, what do you expect? White box FMJ. No hitches at all.

I converted the Sportarms gun with mismatch unfitted parts to 7.62x25 m/m. The slide was apparently Chinese commercial, the barrel Chinese military. The bushing and subframe were of unknown origin.

Once I got around sorting out the fact I'd idiotically put the magazine springs in the mags wrong, and installed a too-short firing pin, the mismatched pieces just ran like a team. I lubed it with Tuff-Oil polymer lube. 100 or so rounds once it was sorted out, no hitches at all.

The converted gun was given to a friend. He has reported no problems at all.

In summary, my limited experience with Tokarevs has included nothing resembling breakin requirements.

 

[mec]

Jared just shot the 50 round Texas CHL demo with this one with a couple of rounds out into the 9 ring but most if them clustered in the x. (B27 target). It now runs smoothly with ball and I am still looking for a fully reliable JHP load. I get the impression that the action module would be a totally interchangeable drop in fit.

 

[colt1903]

Mastiff,

Certainly, go ahead.

 

[Mastiff]

Colt1903, thank you. I appreciate it.

 

[ev239]

How come most of the pictures that I see of the gun are always of the right side and not of the left side with the safety? I'd like to get a better look at the left side with the slide stop and safety.

 

[colt1903]

ev239,

Go back to the first page and look at the earlier Model 88 posted by "old ironsights". The hammer appearance and function is the same.

 

[Princi]

Trigger Work???

Has anyone done any trigger work on these? I took mine apart today and noted that the sear has a very rough finish. (I would have looked at it with the 16X loupe my wife has, but it was in the bedroom and whe was taking a long nap [jet-lag]).

I also noticed that the hammer hooks were slightly over .030" - wonder why there is creep? The hammer spring also appears to be quite robust. I'm thinking a little rotation on the bench belt-sander for it, and lowering the hammer hooks to .020". (Sorry the 1911 terminology, but everyone knows it).

I didn't check to see how positive the engagement was before I started the disassembly. However, I don't normally change the angle unless I have the Power Custom Series 1 adapter for it. Also, I'm conservative unless I know I can get replacement parts in case I screw it up. (Manufacturers like Ruger won't sell you engagement parts; you have to send the gun into them or buy after-market parts).

The other thing I noticed was the heavy trigger return spring. I think I can remove about half the tension on it and it will still function properly. I'll leave the sear spring alone for the time being.

I haven't shot this thing yet - I have jet-lag too, but in dry-firing I found the trigger pull to be unacceptable. I'm wondering, from those of you that have shot them: does it have any trigger-slap. I never shoot my CZ-52's nor my Taurus 85 because I hate the trigger-slap. (I'm surprised the surgeon that worked on my trigger finger ever graduated from grammar school let alone medical college).

 

[grimjaw]

Princi, no trigger slap that I remember. However, after 50 rounds or so, the slide on mine would tend to lock back after every round fired. It wasn't getting stuck on a round or having rounds nosedive. I think it's similar to what others guess, and might have to do with the trigger group.

Mine hits below POA about 4"-6" at 15 yards, but the group is tight.

jm

 

[wristtwister]

I've got one of the M88's and I wouldn't use it on anything smaller than a man across a distance of a room. The one I have simply isn't accurate at all.
I've put in about 10 hours of polishing, grinding, and smoothing out the action of the thing, and it's still just a paperweight.

I'd have a better chance throwing it at somebody than trying to shoot them with it for self defense. I'm not a master gunsmith by any means, but I've had nothing but trouble with this gun, and it's simply junk.

I might have gotten the only one made on a Friday, but nothing I've done has affected anything except how smoothe the action runs. It still shoots all over the place.

A few days ago, I shot the M88 and it was all over the target. Then, I took my Smith 5903 and shot out the bullseye of the same target. I shoot at about 15 to 20 yards usually, and the M88 hasn't been any good at any distance I've tried it other than point blank.

I like the size of the gun, the way it feels in your hand, the ease of field stripping... it just won't hit anything... which outweighs all that other stuff. I shoot the same ammo in all my guns, and have zero trouble with them, but there just doesn't seem to be any POA that works with this pistol. For right now, it's a trade in... on the first opportunity.

WT

 

[mec]

it sound like accuracy with these comes down to a coin toss. This is Jared Schmidt qualifying target. Fifty rounds from three, seven and fifteen yards

 

[wristtwister]

Like I said... I probably got the one made on a Friday.

go figure...

WT

 

[Princi]

I took the M88 to the range this morning along with the H&K P30. I shot the M88 first, but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Over the weekend I took the hammer to the belt sander and lowered it to .020" I also removed some of the metal from the hammer spring by putting it on the end of a punch and holding it at a 45 degree angle on the belt sander. Next I slightly reformed the trigger spring to make it a tad lighter. Before taking it to the range, my trigger pull was 6.5lbs - not exactly one of my 1911's.

At the range I was only shooting at 7 yards because I wanted instant gratification - i.e. I wanted to see the holes in the paper without optical assistance. The first 4 rounds were right in the center, and I was very pleased. Ahhh, didn't I load 5? Yup, it locked open with still a round in the magazine.

I lost track on the next couple of magazine, but it was frequently locking open with rounds in the magazine. I quickly deduced that the problem was not with the magazine. It appeared to me that the slide stop was too loose and during recoil was engaging the slide. Looking at the slide stop retainer, I noticed that it wasn't all the way forward. Well, no wonder!!!

I then found out that during recoil, the slide stop retainer was moving to the rear and wouldn't stay forward. Leaving the slide on the shooting bench, I took the frame into the club's shop. I first tried using long-nose pliers to squeeze the clip together to no avail. Next I removed the grips in order to remove the slide stop retainer from the gun. Putting in the vise, I was able to squeeze it near the base. That worked. (Just a little too well, I now can't pull it back with my finger to field strip, I'll have to use a plastic rod and hammer).

The results were good - no more slide locking back with rounds in the magazine, and except for a couple of times that I flinched (someone shooting next to me - hey, got to have some excuse), the target looked really good.

I didn't do as well shooting the P30. Most of the 50 rounds were slightly to left of center, and I pulled a couple with it as well. For some reason both the P30 and the Elite think my forehead is a target for ejected cases. Is this a H&K design flaw with 9mm? My Expert in 45ACP has never done that.

So, after 50 rounds through the M88, I'm fairly happy except my finger is sore. I knew I was going to hate that trigger.

 

[mec]

I then found out that during recoil, the slide stop retainer was moving to the rear and wouldn't stay forward.

The one I shot started out so tight that I had to use a instrument to push it back away fromt the slide stop. Later, it loosened enough that I could move it with my thumb. It never did get to the point of disengaging on its on but that's something to look out for.

 

[Princi]

Mec, it never moved so far to the rear as to completely disengage. If it did the slide stop pin would fall out. Try this:

Remove the slide and the magazine. Put the slide stop pin back in and then the slide stop retainer. Now looking at the retainer, move the slide stop up and down while looking at the retainer. Notice how the retainer opens and closes slightly? Now remove the pin and look at it. Notice that there are slots in it instead of just a round groove for the retainer to slide into. That is the key. The retainer doesn't just act as a retainer, it has a dual purpose of providing spring tension for the slide stop. The stronger the retainer's grip, the harder it is to move the slide stop up and down. The converse is also true: the less tension it applies, the easier it is for the slide stop to move up and down. If there isn't much tension the slide stop can easily move up and catch the slide.

Sorry, I should have done better making this clear in my last post.

 

[atblis]

A tramp stamp on EAA's model.

How appropriate.

Fixed that for you.

 

[mordecai]

I think someone stated it's an 8-shot magazine... Just checking to see if there's any chance it's longer like the Yugo M-58 9-shot mag?

 

[mec]

the one I checked out had an 8 round magazine.

 

[wristtwister]

Recycled M88 thread

I hate to bring this up again, but after 10 hours of polishing inside my M88, and putting more rounds through it, I still think its a piece of junk. It shoots about 6" low at 15 yards, and it's not my shooting. I took my SR-9, my S&W 5903, and several revolvers to the range with me, and tatooed the center of the target... with the M88, I had to aim at the target's "chin" to hit it in the chest. I wouldn't use this gun for self defense unless I knew I could push it up against the target and pull the trigger.

I'm really ticked that I see all the glowing reports of how well the gun shoots from others, and mine is total junk. At least now, with 10 hours of grinding and polishing, the slide is smoothe, but it's about as accurate as throwing rocks.

...not saying I wouldn't buy another one, but only if I won the lottery... and then only with a "money back" guarantee.

WT

 

[mec]

I have not problem believing you got a lemon. Don't know how common that is. I went to great lengths to speed the break-in on my sample and still had to fire about 150 rounds before it became completely reliable with ball and round profiled jhps.
It did turn out to be more accurate than I expected given the ten pound trigger pull.
did your's finally become reliable?

 

[graycrait]

3 days after receiving my M88 I sent it back to EAA. It would group but would shoot low. I shot 300 rounds through it one afternoon with 4 other good shooters. The gun never flinched with any round. However it shot way low. When we looked at the barrel over a piece of bench glass it appeared that the barrel was bent. This is a two-piece barrel, so who knows what went on in manufacturing.

I love the gun's overall feel, balance and size. Slim is the word. However, my trigger was 10 lbs even after 300 rounds. The whole action needs a friction removal job and the hammer spring is strong and maybe required.

Hopefully I get the pistol back Friday or Saturday.

Craig

 

[mec]

the reliability you got makes it worthwhile to deal with the sighting bias. sounds like you got a good one.

 

[sara bellum]

worth a second look

Seems folks overlooked that the M88 is a modernized version of the Tokarev TT33. As such it has a decocker. I wish someone had explained:

1. if the M88 operates in DA mode after decocking.
2. Can the M88 be carried in condition 1 (cocked and locked)? Does it have a half cock feature or drop block feature?
3. if the M88 is the same size as the regular TT33 or is shorter. I'm guessing it's shorter. What length is the barrel. Nice comparison with the Colt 1903 and Glock.
4. Are slimmer after market grips available?
5. Will regular Tokarev 213 9mm magazines fit flush or will they stick out?

The M88 seems like a cool, rugged handgun.

 

[Hooptie]

I think I want to bring this back up, maybe some updates to be had?

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I don't know about all the other owners, but I had a problem with web bite from the M88. I think that it was poorly designed, and could well benefit from a longer tang. I had been collecting Tokarevs, and added an M88 to the collection. I thought that it had promise, but definitely needed that longer grip tang to be a competitive pistol in the current marketplace.

 

[Realbigo]

Just found this thread by luck. I have a a couple of M88 questions if anyone care to answer them. First, Is the safety also a de-cocker? Second, do the mags drop free?
Thanks