Ear Damage (hearing loss and ringing)

[benEzra]

Yeah, I'm 18 yet I've occasionally noticed a slight ringing in my ears when it gets real quiet.
Maybe I should cut back from my twice a week trip to the range.

Wear good plugs in combination with good muffs, and you'll be fine. I'm 37 with excellent hearing, and I've been shooting for well over 20 years.

The other thing that can really screw up your hearing is lots of listening to music at high volume via headphones. Good nutrition and rest (and some periods of peace and quiet) can help mitigate damage as well. Some studies have also shown that the antioxidant N-acetyl-cysteine ("NAC" at GNC or other health-food stores) can help prevent damage to the cells of the cochlea.

 

[-terry]

If someone doesn't like hearing aids it is probably (a) too much pride to wear them, (b) they don't fit correctly, or (c) they are the wrong kind. When I buy hearing aids, I buy the best there is. I only buy one (usually right ear so car wind noise from the window isn't a factor). The latest digital HA's compensate for all kinds of background sounds, automatically adjust sound levels, and can be programmed to boost or suppress specific frequency bands.

You can get demo HA's. Give them a try. They also help (in many cases) with tinnitus. Mine disappeared when I started wearing HA's.

 

[hso]

I've been working in health and safety for over 15 years. The old NRRA+NRRB-5dB rule is no longer used by the profession. This is not a debate in our field, it simply is recognized as wrong. The current rule of thumb of NRRmax+5dB is now under debate (actually the whole NRR measurement is under debate), but until something else is agreed upon it's what we have to work with.

Regardless what evolves in the debate on measuring hearing protective equipment, the one rule of thumb we all need to follow is to wear earplugs properly under properly worn muffs while near shooting if you want to preserve your hearing.

 

[Markbo]

-terry... how much do these 'best there is' hearing aids cost?

 

[Pushrod]

I have terrrible tinnitis in my left ear and moderate in my right. I think the majority of the damage causing the tinnitis was from when I used to take excedrine headache medicine regularly. I found out that if taken regularly it eroded the myelin sheath of the auditory nerves and causes tinnitis.

It doesn't bother me as much as it bothers my wife. I constantly asking "whadya say?" everytime she tells me to do something (although I think I exagerate the extent of the condition to get out of some of the honeydo list)!

 

[Frandy]

I was 18 (now 59 and soon-to-be-60) and shooting my '03-A3 at an outdoor range. We were instructed to stop firing so we could go out to check or change our targets. I regret removing my ear protection, because someone to my left fired (after the STOP order) one round of black powder rifle. The ringing started and has been my constant companion ever since. And, of course, I lost my high-end hearing.

For the past five years I've worn a hearing-aid like device that boosts high end sounds and does some masking of the whooshing/ringing. Without the aid, it's at times difficult to hear others speak when at a social gathering. It even helps when at the movie theater.

This isn't mine, but mine looks like this one because it's the same design type (post auricular canal):

http://www.audiologyonline.com/askexpert/display_question.asp?question_id=196

Ironically, I left mine at home by today, but if you go to an ENT, you can find out all about them.

Sadly, as others have said, the damage is permanent.

 

[MD_Willington]

I have tinnitus from running a Rigid power vice (I used to thread pipe) and from running power tools, especially from a compound mitre saw... I'm 32 today..

 

[Hiaboo]

Protect your hearing!! I am deaf myself, I was born that way. Even so, I still wear my earplugs/muffs... I do hear the higher end calibers I'd say over 120db I can hear but anything below that? nope. The very little I have left, I'd like to keep so... Double up guys.. This really needs to be enforced with the younger ones these days becuase they don't really understand/belief that this can happen to them.

 

[-terry]

Mine usually run between 1000 and 1300 each.

 

[.38 Special]

My wife is a doctor of audiology and I am a "hearing instrument specialist", so I might be able to provide a bit of insight.

Most hearing loss is permanent, as is the bulk of tinnitus. The ear does have some healing capability though, so it's not perfectly fair to say that the OP's recent loss is definitely incurable. It's true that the only effective medical treatment at this point is early steroids, but the OP won't really know what he's stuck with until at least several months have gone by. The tinnitus, in particular, can very possibly improve over the next few months.

As for the treatment of established tinnitus, there isn't any, at least not in the form of a pill or surgery. We're still stuck with A) counseling -- which essentially amounts to training the sufferer to pay it no mind -- and B) masking agents, which can be as simple as running a fan or white noise generator at night, or as complex as hearing aids or in-ear white noise generators. These treatments meet with mixed results -- some people can indeed manage or even ignore tinnitus with fair success, and I am one of them. Other people are overwhelmed by it, and there are, in fact, tinnitus-related suicides. So tinnitus can't be covered by a single blanket statement.

Now, if there is a positive side to the OPs case, it is that the bulk of human communication takes place between 500 and 4000 hertz, so a loss that is primarily above 4000 hertz should not be devastating. Unfortunately, the sort of nerve damage that he is suffering can have more insidious effects that just a decrease in perceived volume. "The sound is loud enough, but I still have trouble making out the words" is a common complaint among hearing aid users that suffer from this type (sensorineural) of hearing loss. I explain it to patients as "Think of a cable connecting a computer to a monitor. If the cable is damaged, it doesn't matter how well your monitor is working: some of the information still isn't going to make it to the screen".

As for the cost of hearing aids, good digital instruments tend to start at about $2500/pair and peak at around $7000/pair. I personally would stay away from analog instruments, even if they are fitted by a licensed professional. They provide an unnatural sound and very limited adjustability. Imagine a laptop that is programmed via screwdriver, and you'll actually have a pretty accurate idea of what analog hearing aids are about. They are cheap, though...

HTH!

 

[.38 Special]

Oh, and as for the "Navy Hearing Pill", so far it's a good solid "maybe". Research indicates that antioxidants, including N-acetylcysteine (the active ingredient in the pill) may have some healing and protective qualities, but the jury is still out. At worst, it's probably harmless, although overdose can definitely do bad things to your blood pressure. At best, it might be a substantial help.

 

[Rokman]

Greg this is a good thread and sorry to hear about your delimma. I also have the ringing and have had it for years. I quess I have just learned to live with it. I am 41 and when I was young, nobody wore hearing protection while shooting shotguns and .22 rifles. Now I wouldn't even consider shooting without hearing protection. I damaged mine in many ways such as shooting, loud rock-n-roll played on powerful stereo systems, driving a soft top jeep with mud tires on pavement, a loud job, etc. Most people take their hearing for granted until it is too late. We all need to help stress the importance of hearing protection to new shooters!

 

[Greg All Calibers]

Follow-up : Almost 1 year later

I am the original poster. It's been almost a year and the tinnitus is still very loud. I have been to neuro-audiologists, ENTs, and other specialized medical doctors.

There is no cure.

If anyone has advice for me, I am willing to listen. Stress and salt make it worse. Flying also makes it worse.

Please take care of your hearing.

 

[.38 Special]

Bummer.

At this point, counseling/retraining/biofeedback (a fancy version of "Ignore it") is one step. Another is a masking device, which can be worn in-ear if the tinnitus bothers you during the day, or an external device if it only troubles you while trying to sleep. You can do the "water test" to see if masking is a good solution for you: simply turn on a faucet full blast and see if you can still hear the tinnitus. If not, a masker will work well.

Your audiologist is the best bet for an in-ear device. There are some available over-the-counter -- the Sleep-Eze brand is one I am familiar with -- but they are rarely comfortable enough for all day wear.

And be careful with what you've got left -- there are studies indicating that damaged ears are more susceptible to further damage.

 

[lamazza]

Welcome to the club. Making silencers easier to aquire would be saving future generations from this plague.

 

[Andy-Y]

I hate to disagree, but you never get use to it. As I sat here and read this the ringing has come back to forefront of my mind. You learn to push it back, you learn to ignore, but you never get use to it.

Couldn't agree more. I'm 28 and I've been dealing with this for around 9 years or so. It SUCKS! I use hearing protection religiously now to prevent further damage (I don't think my sanity could handle it!!!:banghead:).

 

[neviander]

This is a re post from http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=392271&page=2

I fired a .357 with a 6 inch barrel when I was very much outside and it deafened me for the rest of the day....scared the crap out of me. There was no loud bang, just a short "P" sound then no birds singing and I couldn't hear what my buddies were saying when they were right next to me. I handed the gun off and walked inside.

Has anyone seen There Will be Blood? (I'll try not to spoil it) I think of the scene where the character that had been deafened was laying on their side just moaning, but they couldn't hear themselves. That's kind of what I was doing until my hearing returned; of course I wasn't completely deaf, but I kept kind of saying "la la la" to test my hearing.

For that reason, I won't buy a .357 handgun...a rifle sure, but that supersonic muzzle blast that close to my head won't happen again, at least not voluntarily.

 

[rondog]

I'm 52 and have had tinnitus for at least 30 years. It sucks as badly as everyone else has said, and then some. But think about how many millions of people have gotten it ever since the invention of gunpowder and the Industrial Revolution. All over the planet.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

Ahh, the sound of a yardfull of crickets on a nice summer night.

24/7/365

It sucks.

Foam plugs are rated for 33 Db reduction, some of them. If you double the protection with muffs ya get maybe another 3-6 Db reduction.

Best thing is to try and always remember your protection, and limit your overall time of exposure.

I would be curious to know if the sterol Medrol works though.

 

[loneviking]

Harmonic posted:

If you are shooting by yourself, roughly 100 rounds of 140 dB instantaneous noise in a day should not produce hearing damage. Put your plugs and muffs on and you get to shoot up to a thousand rounds without damage (louder ammo/gun and the allowable drops by a factor of 5). Shoot with other people and you have to add all the rounds shot cumulatively (10 people shoot 100 rounds and everybody's done for the day; toss a handcannon or 30 cal rifle in and you're back down to 200 rounds cumulative). If you shoot on an indoor range then all the rounds fired while you are on the range go into your total. So you can see that it doesn't take very long on a range to have a thousand rounds popped off around you.

Interesting thread! I always thought that the above quote was accurate---but if so, what happened to the many on this thread who had (sometimes) almost instantaneous hearing damage from one round?

And yet, there are others such as myself, that have fired rifles/shotguns/pistols many times without hearing protection and have minimal hearing loss and maybe occasional tinnitis. I've been tested and have a 10% deficit in the highest range in the left ear (I'm left handed and shoot left handed) with only rare tinnitis that passes quickly. The right ear has normal hearing for someone my age (I'm 48). When target shooting, I do use muffs, but no ear plugs and I'm shooting .357's and often an 03-A3. I don't have ringing even after 50 or so rounds of 30-06 with just muffs on.

So, I have to wonder if there isn't something else going on here. Are some folks just more predisposed to hearing loss? During a gunfight, there are some who don't seem to suffer any hearing damage and apparently the body has some way to shut off or protect some individuals hearing. Could it be that some are able to do this voluntarily?

I don't know what the answers are to these questions. As many have said, the best thing is to wear muffs with plugs and you'll never have to find out what hearing loss is all about!

 

[hso]

apparently the body has some way to shut off or protect some individuals hearing.

No, it doesn't. That's a myth. The effect is called auditory exclusion and it is the mind's way, not the ear's, of cutting out information that might be distracting in a crisis.

 

[loneviking]

No, it doesn't. That's a myth. The effect is called auditory exclusion and it is the mind's way, not the ear's, of cutting out information that might be distracting in a crisis.

Last I checked, the mind IS a very important part of the body---and this effect results in the hearing not being affected by the sound. What I find interesting is that auditory exclusion occurs with some individuals and not others under the same type of circumstance. So, a gun is shot and one individual suffers permanent hearing problems, and yet another individual appears to have suffered no damage---why?

 

[jackstinson]

I've had the ringing for 30 years now and I've gotten used to it. I blew my hearing playing guitar for a living 6 nights a week, 52 weeks a year. LOUD seemed like a good idea in my 20's. My wife is also used to me not catching the first few words of a sentence about 50% of the time. I use a fan at night for background noise.
I still play in a band, just not as loud.....and I wear protection when shooting.

 

[hso]

Last I checked, the mind IS a very important part of the body---and this effect results in the hearing not being affected by the sound.

No, auditory exclusion is a psychological and not a physical effect. Whether hearing is damaged or not is a different mechanism altogether. Think of being in an auto accident where you quit hearing the radio and tunnel vision occurs. Since the mind "time shares" instead of actually "multi tasking" it dedicates all resources to surviving the perceived threat. It quits accepting input from those senses that aren't involved in preserving the animal. That's all auditory exclusion is, the mind no longer accepting inputs. The ear still receives any damage that might occur. The mind just refuses to "listen" to it.

There is a mechanism that kicks in to protect the inner ear from more sustained high noise. The aural reflex mechanisms work to protect the inner ear from loud noises, but they respond too slowly to protect from impulse damage like gunshots (100 to 150 milliseconds reaction vs microseconds for the noise pulse). The curvature of the ear drum is changed and the muscles attached to the bones that transmit the sound pressure to the inner ear tense up to reduce some of the sound, but too slowly to help shooters. These protective mechanisms can "fatigue" and have their own problems over time, but they don't help shooters because they don't react quickly enough to prevent the damage from occurring.

Most people don't notice the damage done by noise. The loss of hearing is more akin to a chipping away of small bits instead of hacking out large chunks. Since we don't notice the fractional loses we don't pay any attention to the overall loss (like having our rights chipped away little bit by little bit until we wake up to the reality) until it is obvious.

It is the rare occurrence that a dramatic loss is experienced due to a single event or a very few such events. Those instances get discussed and some folks may think that because they don't experience anything dramatic they're not getting any damage.

That's not what we see in occupational safety and industrial hygiene and not what the military sees. Damage occurs.

 

[graygun]

Sorry about the bad news.

Also,wear h.p. at drag strips,circle tracks,etc. Top Fuel and Funny Car,especially,generate pain-level sound (db?) but all of it is very loud.