Earmuffs and Ear Plugs worn together

[trackskippy]

When I got my hearing aids, they told me they made custom ear plugs as well. What I found kind of amazing was, according to their literature on them, they only had a rating of 16, which, compared to the 33 my Howard Leight foam plugs have, is half the rating. When I asked them about that, they really didnt have an answer.I would have expected at least the same or close anyway, especially for the money they were asking.Then again, maybe there is a method to their madness here.

Just because they are "custom" doesnt necessarily mean they are better. You need to be paying attention to things.

Something else I dont get is, wearing the noise-canceling muffs over plugs. I cant really hear people talk with just the plugs in (lip reading has its perks ), what good is the noise-canceling feature if youre wearing plugs with them? Might as well get the best-rated non-canceling muffs if youre going to wear them.

This model does not interfere with cheek weld:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001T7QJ9O?pldnSite=1

The only thing Ive found that does not interfere with naturally shouldering the gun and youre cheek weld is plugs.

I dont know how some of you shoot/shoulder a rifle, but depending on the gun Im shooting, more often than not, I can usually feel the lower part of my ear on the top of the stock with a proper cheek weld.

 

[12Bravo20]

The only thing Ive found that does not interfere with naturally shouldering the gun and youre cheek weld is plugs.

I dont know how some of you shoot/shoulder a rifle, but depending on the gun Im shooting, more often than not, I can usually feel the lower part of my ear on the top of the stock with a proper cheek weld.

Some people use a good cheek weld when shooting rifles while others use more of a chin weld. And a lot of traditional hunting stocks have lower combs and most shooters use more of a chin weld with them. I can see eat muffs not being a problem in those situations. The same goes with the standard rifle stocks and standard carbine stocks on AR rifles. They are low enough that muffs will not interfere.

Most of my rifles have some form of cheek riser and they will all interfere with using muffs. When I am shooting my AR's with either an A2 rifle stock or adjustable M4 style carbine stock, then I can wear muffs without any issues.

 

[Zendude]

Both, especially at indoor ranges.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I wear hearing protection when I use power tools, even a vacuum cleaner.
"Someday" I will get custom molded plugs, users have told me their main advantage is, that like tailored clothing, they fit much better.

 

[trackskippy]

If you put the foam plugs in right, they fit, and its a proper fit every time.

You'd be amazed at how difficult and technical they seem to be for some to figure out though.

 

[Blue Jays]

Heck…I use NRR 32 foam plugs flying in commercial aircraft, riding on trains, and even doing household chores. Any opportunity to limit loud noises from reaching your ears is a good thing. I keep a pair in my pocket so they can be accessed immediately for whatever circumstances, never mind just the shooting range.

 

[.38 Special]

At best, custom plugs offer the same level of noise reduction as properly fitted foamies. At worst, they're nearly useless - and I say that as a guy who runs a hearing clinic and has had quite a few plugs made for himself. It's not hard for even an experienced clinician to make custom plugs that don't fit adequately.

The main advantage of customs (assuming they fit properly) is comfort and ease of use. With a bit of practice they can be inserted quickly and easily, whereas foamies always require a bit of rolling up and holding in place. Also, some ear canals just don't take foamies very well. I've rolled my eyes at patients who complained of the "difficulty" of inserting foamies, and then discovered for myself that their ear canals were shaped so as to make proper insertion difficult or even impossible. For those folks, customs can be a great plan.

 

[westernrover]

I like foam plugs because they work very well and don't interfere with cheek-weld or with headgear (hats). No they're not comfortable, but tinnitus is worse.

The main problem I have with foam plugs, is that it is too easy to forget that one is out. I took a plug out to hear the clicks on a sight adjustment (I was the only one on the range) and forgot to put it back in until after the next shot. Too many people don't believe that "one shot" can be devastating. I'm telling you it can. Don't find out the hard way.

 

[Legionnaire]

Foam plugs and electronic muffs shooting centerfire rifles and pistols, especially if indoors. Occasionally one or the other, but NEVER unprotected.

 

[dcloco]

.....and nobody has mentioned cherry bomb mufflers, open headers, or NITRO blown fun stuff!!!

 

[12Bravo20]

.....and nobody has mentioned cherry bomb mufflers, open headers, or NITRO blown fun stuff!!!

All of which will damage one's hearing too.

 

[.38 Special]

.....and nobody has mentioned cherry bomb mufflers, open headers, or NITRO blown fun stuff!!!

I suspect most of my tinnitus and high frequency loss is due to motor racing rather than gunfire. Every fool knows to wear ear pro for shooting, but cars are just cars, right? Oops...

 

[aaaaa]

I wear plugs under muffs at indoor ranges. I get stuck next to 16” .308 rifles at indoor ranges on occasion.

One indoor range in my area has separate ranges for pistols vs long guns. I have had some extremely loud guns going off in at the range at times. I quit wearing plugs under my muffs because the plugs did not seem to do much at all, though back in the 1980s I survived a Ted Nugent concert, risers in front of the speakers, with foam ear plugs, saved my ears but my bones were shaking. My Decibel Defense muffs are rated to reduce noise by 34-37 Decibels.

 

[Switup]

Yes, ear plugs combined with ear muffs will give more protection than either alone. However, they are not additive, and the NRR is the highest one, with the additional protection adding about 4 more NRR to the equation. This is so called double protection.

I use double protection when mowing the lawn, as with ear plugs alone I did get a slight increase in T for a few minutes after, and this solved it for me. One theory is that the muffs protect a larger portion of the ear area of the skull, and reduce the sound entering the ear via bone conduction.

 

[tarosean]

I don’t trust the electronic plugs

May I ask why?

 

[DMW1116]

Specifically it’s the noise canceling ones. The cancellation is done with degenerative frequencies and volumes. That’s still noise and energy even if you can’t hear it.

 

[Craig_AR]

The cancellation is done with degenerative frequencies and volumes.

There are two types of electronic ear protectors. Noise canceling protectors, like the specialty ones sold for pilots, and Sony stereo headsets and their competitors, add sound to the speakers at 180 degrees out of phase with the incoming sounds, adjusted at specific frequency ranges. I have used these to reduce the impact of engine noise on airliners, and the higher frequency noise of the air conditioners in computer rooms.

Electronic protectors for shooting work differently. The outer microphones on shooting protectors pass through to the speakers outside sound, like conversation and nature sounds for hunters, limited to a preset sound level (like 90db), until there is a sharp report (gunfire). When the protectors' circuits "hear" the gunfire, they shut off all sound transmission; this causes the protectors to briefly provide the full sound reduction of the inert muffs or plugs.

I assume the distinction is about the nature of the electronics needed to hear wide range of sound and generate the 180 phase blanking sound at all times, compared to the system that limits all sound to 90db as it passes through, but can shut off nearly instantly to muffle gunshot sounds. A clue is the difference in prices: stereo noise cancelers run from $100 to $600 and up, especially for pilots' headset. Decent shooters' start at well under $100.

I have not investigated the very high priced shooters' protectors, whose price implies they may use noise cancellation circuitry. Can anyone here confirm that?

 

[gonoles_1980]

I wear earplugs with muffs. Spent a lot of time around aircraft engines, hearing protection was a priority. But I also only shoot handguns anymore.

 

[Archie]

Years ago, when magazines had actual articles rather than extended advertisements, I read a number of articles by different authors on the subject of 'acoustic trauma' and the effect on the eardrum. Pretty much substantiated by the 'ear doctors' with whom I have had dealings over the years.

Hearing loss is usually caused by thickening of the ear drum, caused by excess noise. "Excess" is actually a vague term, but seems to indicate louder than the sounds of nature. The chief exception is larger waterfalls and rapids. Exceptions include volcano eruptions, land slides and other such functions caused by a specific event.

There seems to be no doubt 'loud' noises will damage the ear drum and therefore hearing. (All readers likely already knew this.)

Ear plugs are better than nothing. Plugs however, do allow the sound 'shock wave' to enter the ear by the mastoid bone and damage hearing at a somewhat slower rate. Cotton balls or wadding are functionally useless.

Ear muff type devices are better than plugs. They also cover the mastoid bone.

Both types vary in effectiveness. Both are rated in terms of decibel protection. Like most manufactured products, they do vary in quality. Some muff type devices fit a certain skull shape better than others. That of course, varies with which skull shape one was issued at birth.

Both plugs and muffs are superior in ear protection than use of either individually. One notes that situations have much influence on the use.

I have some hearing loss. It was caused by gunfire (both my own and being in the Marine Corps). To exacerbate the problem, I had a sports car for well over a decade and drove with the windows open. The flapping from open windows over time damages ear drums and hearing. So I am interested in keeping what I have left.
I always wear protection of some sort. It depends on the situation.

On an indoor range with rimfire arms, I tend to wear the muff types. I like the electronic sensor types as it is easier to hear normally. However, the electronic sensor types do NOT automatically indicate better overall protection. Nor are they automatically inferior. The problem is the batteries fade at some point, then the devices are just noise suppressors. (A personal problem.)

On outdoor ranges, I generally use muff types. When working up loads with rifles, I'll use both. When out hunting or such, usually ear plugs. (I confess the last two situations have nearly ceased.)

As always, all of you (should be) are old enough to choose for yourself. As an old man with hearing loss, I encourage everyone to consider the matter as a long term problem. One really loud exposure can damage one's hearing seriously. Hearing damage does not 'heal'.

 

[tarosean]

Specifically it’s the noise canceling ones. The cancellation is done with degenerative frequencies and volumes. That’s still noise and energy even if you can’t hear it.

sorry but I view them as darn near the best thing since sliced bread. I own noise cancelling and electronic shooting muffs and they work as advertised.

 

[PWC]

Overkill ONLY to those that don't like/use them. Use what works for you thru testing.

Another option for vets with hearing problems....when fitted for new hearing aides, ask the audiologist to do an extra set of ear impressions to use as plugs.

Don't forget, a good cheek weld also introduces bone conduction. Might consider a piece of moleskin on the stock; also helps cheek weld repeatability.

 

[Reloadron]

I wear the Howard Leight muffs which do just fine. Initially over foam plugs but I quit the foam plugs a few years ago. When I was young and invincible I never gave my hearing much thought. There was Vietnam and after that flight decks.

Another option for vets with hearing problems....when fitted for new hearing aides, ask the audiologist to do an extra set of ear impressions to use as plugs.

Damn, I should have done that. Just got my first set of hearing aids in January and yesterday marked 73 trips around the sun for me. Really like the hearing aids so far the VA gave me. On the range, indoor or outdoor I just use my Howard Leight muffs which fit tight and seem to work just fine. Whenever I take the kids or grandkids out I make sure they use plugs and muffs. Don't want them to end up like me. Next VA appointment the Audiology department takes walk in so I may get another set of impressions. Really nice people in there.

Ron

 

[luzyfuerza]

So to answer the OP, I have very narrow ear canals, and great difficulty getting plugs in right. So I just use highly rated muffs.

Denton, have you ever tried the smaller foam plugs intended for women and youth? In my experience, the slightly smaller size makes a big difference.

This is just one version:

https://www.amazon.com/Canceling-Blocking-Reduction-Earplugs-Sleeping/dp/B097G32FWQ/ref=sr_1_8?crid=3D9BFPP3OX2NQ&keywords=foam+ear+plugs+for+youth+and+children&qid=1675903444&sprefix=foam+ear+plugs+for+youth+and+children,aps,180&sr=8-8

And these folks have the biggest selection and best prices that I've found anywhere:

https://www.earplugstore.com/difoearpl.html

 

[straightShot]

I use plugs and muffs. For rifle shooting, I sometimes have to make adjustments due to muff interference. I wish that I had done the same while duck hunting 40 years ago. Once it's gone, it doesn't come back.

 

[herrwalther]

I like a pair of rubber earplugs with a NRR of at least 28 in addition to electronic ear muffs. This is the best combo I have found to block out the most gun fire noise but still hear conversations and range commands. Being an instructor, being able to hear my student's questions is paramount to a safe and informative period of instruction. I have tinnitus and hearing damage from military service. I do not want it to get any worse. The Mrs already says I don't hear her enough.