Earmuffs and Ear Plugs worn together

[.38 Special]

Like others, I double up for indoor ranges - and honestly, I don't think even that is always adequate. One of our local places allows any handgun cartridge, and rifles of up to .338 Lapua. Some things are so loud that dangerous levels of sound will enter the inner ear directly through the skull. I can't think of any way to protect from cannons fired indoors other than perhaps a full-face helmet.

 

[AMraider]

I wear both. What little hearing that is left is protected at all costs.

 

[hso]

dangerous levels of sound will enter the inner ear directly through the skull

That's where muffs provide some small additional benefit. They provide some small reduction in what conducts through bone where the pads of the cup touch the skull (which is another reason to have nothing interfering with that contact). Plugs provide a frequency range protection that falls off with muffs and muffs provide a frequency protection that falls off with plugs. The overlap in the frequencies they function most efficiently across gives the best protection.

 

[3Crows]

Both.

 

[Brubz]

Wow you guys present a grim picture! I'd better give up guns and take up knitting! lol

 

[WiTom]

I didn't start wearing both until I got the Magnum Research in 30/30. Now, I wear both with most all shoots, but I still only wear the ear plugs with 9mm. I don't shoot at an indoor range, but need everything I got, when shooting the 50 AE Desert Eagle, even outside.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I just use the highest rated plugs, which are usually in the 33-34 range. Ive never found them to be lacking, even indoors with the louder guns.

Ive never liked shooting with the muffs, and they are about useless with long guns. They interfere with a good cheek weld and that usually breaks the seal on the muffs as well. They usually dont have a very high rating either and youre better off with the plugs.

This model does not interfere with cheek weld:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001T7QJ9O?pldnSite=1

 

[Brubz]

What do you guys think about the Howard Leight LL1 plugs?

 

[Bentonville]

There's been a lot of talk on the forum about ear protection. it seems that a lot of guys wear earplugs and ear muffs over top of them how many of you do that? is it just extra caution or overkill?

I’m 72. I’ve been shooting guns since I was 16 and didn’t know about the cochlea and cilia until I was around thirty . I have moderate hearing loss and horrible hissing ( tinnitus) in both ears. I just bought hearing aids , very expensive for good ones .
I started doubling up about twenty years ago . 33 NRR dial plugs and 32 NRR muffs. The muffs added in top of plugs only add about 5 more decibel reduction . There are a lot of well-researched threads on this and other forums . Always double up. Even then the sound reaching the mechanical part of the hearing, ear drum, ossicles , and cochlea, is way above the threshold for damaging hearing permanently . Remember that damage is cumulative . A few hundred nerves damaged in the overall range of hearing over many exposures results in tinnitus and hearing loss. Here is an article that briefly explains things without being too technical. I wish I had known more early in my life . Right now the hissing and crickets are terrible. I’ll never know silence again. https://www.healthyhearing.com/report/7904-Shooting-sports-and-hearing

 

[dcloco]

As much hearing damage occurs because of the area surrounding the outside of the ear. Sound also enters the nasal cavity thru the mouth and nose.

There ARE good muffs and electronic muffs out there. Check the DB rating - don't buy anything under 30 db rating.

The use of plugs and muffs is an excellent idea to protect your hearing.

The other fallacy not spoken about, the need to use hearing protection when shooting with suppressors. Suppressor takes care of the big boom, still need to use hearing protection because of the supersonic noise that damages your hearing.

 

[shoobe01]

As much hearing damage occurs because of the area surrounding the outside of the ear. Sound also enters the nasal cavity thru the mouth and nose.

Important one that's visible in things like Army PPE manuals but still not talked about enough. Wraparound glasses or sealed goggles work to keep sound away from your head. Ideally you have a helmet also, but even a hat helps dampen and redirect sound some.


For handguns or other pistol caliber, most straight walled cartridges etc, outside, I use muffs only.

For most carbine and rifle stuff I double up. Much of the time that means suppressor+muffs or plugs. But for example this weekend I shot a shortish, braked 308 and even outdoors that was nearly ear ringing with just plugs (to keep cheek contact ideal) so gave up after 2 rounds, added muffs after all.

I wish I could add more layers of protection sometimes, such as braked magnums next to me under a metal roof. Ooof.

 

[dcloco]

This model does not interfere with cheek weld:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001T7QJ9O?pldnSite=1

This model is nearly useless. Only a 22 NRR rating. "Reduction Rating (NRR): 22"

 

[film495]

Both. Using electronic muffs over the plugs makes it easier to hear noises you want to hear yet still cancels out the gunshots.

this. it is the best

 

[JohnKSa]

So a 140db noise is over 9x quieter than a 158db sound.

Definitely over 9x. It's about 64x less sound power. 158-140=18dB of difference. 18-3 =15 (that's a 2x reduction) 15-3 = 12 (another 2x reduction) 12-3=9 (another 2x reduction) 9-3 =6 (another 2x) 6-3 =3 (another 2x reduction) 3-3=0 (another 2x). That's 2x2x2x2x2x2=64.

For a simpler calculation, you can take the difference (18dB) in this case, divide it by 10 resulting in 1.8 and then raise 10 to that power. 10 raised to the power of 1.8 is about 63.1. The 3dB is only an approximation although it's a pretty good one. In reality, a 3dB drop reduces the sound power by about 1.9953x

Wow you guys present a grim picture! I'd better give up guns and take up knitting! lol

It's not that bad--it's more a matter of being informed. Then proper precautions can be taken.

 

[denton]

As much hearing damage occurs because of the area surrounding the outside of the ear. Sound also enters the nasal cavity thru the mouth and nose.

There ARE good muffs and electronic muffs out there. Check the DB rating - don't buy anything under 30 db rating.

The use of plugs and muffs is an excellent idea to protect your hearing.

The other fallacy not spoken about, the need to use hearing protection when shooting with suppressors. Suppressor takes care of the big boom, still need to use hearing protection because of the supersonic noise that damages your hearing.

This is an important fact that many miss.

I've used my 34 dB muffs when running my snowblower or my table saw. If I open my mouth, the sound level pops right up.

I'm having a little trouble getting my head around some of the information offered in the linked articles. The general rule is that if you stack attenuators, the dB ratings simply add. Want to knock a radio signal down by 30 dB? Stack a 20 dB attenuator on top of a 10. I have trouble reconciling that with the numbers in the linked articles. I wonder if possibly someone arrived at those without realizing that bone conduction, mouth, nose, etc. couple energy around the muffs and plugs, and at some point adding more NRR accomplishes nothing.

10 dB of reduction is 10X reduction in actual sound pressure. 20 dB is 100X reduction. 30 dB is 1000X reduction. A 32 dB muff or plug is 10X as good as a 22 dB muff or plug, not ~50% better. A lot of the cheap muffs are only 22 dB. I have shot with those, and found them almost useless.

So to answer the OP, I have very narrow ear canals, and great difficulty getting plugs in right. So I just use highly rated muffs.

 

[old lady new shooter]

This model is nearly useless. Only a 22 NRR rating. "Reduction Rating (NRR): 22"

I wear it over foam plugs.

 

[chicharrones]

There's been a lot of talk on the forum about ear protection. it seems that a lot of guys wear earplugs and ear muffs over top of them how many of you do that? is it just extra caution or overkill?

I wear plugs under muffs at indoor ranges. I get stuck next to 16” .308 rifles at indoor ranges on occasion.

 

[GunTube]

Definitely over 9x. It's about 64x less sound power. 158-140=18dB of difference. 18-3 =15 (that's a 2x reduction) 15-3 = 12 (another 2x reduction) 12-3=9 (another 2x reduction) 9-3 =6 (another 2x) 6-3 =3 (another 2x reduction) 3-3=0 (another 2x). That's 2x2x2x2x2x2=64.

Wow! That is correct.

 

[F-111 John]

Another vote for earplugs under electronic earmuffs.

 

[Mark 40]

ear muffs and ear plugs

 

[12Bravo20]

The old CVC (combat vehicle crew member) helmets had built in ear muffs. But they definitely were not enough to protect your hearing when around a lot of traded vehicles. And the Army never bothered to tell us that were were also supposed to be wearing ear plugs at the same time we were wearing our CVC helmets. That is one of the reasons for my tinnitus. Another reason was from being a combat engineer, we never doubled up on hearing protection and the noise and blast waves effected our hearing.

And yes when it comes to suppressor use, one still needs hearing protection, especially when shooting any super sonic cartridge. Rifle calibers are worse than pistol calibers.

I have to live with the constant and loud ringing in my ears and have hearing aids since I did not protect my hearing well enough when I was younger.

Wow you guys present a grim picture! I'd better give up guns and take up knitting! lol

It is not just shooting that will damage your hearing. Working in loud environments such as factories or construction sites will do as much if not more damage. This is especially true if you are around a lot loud equipment or such things as punch presses everyday. Being a tool and die maker/machinist, I was around punch presses and other loud machines all of the time and yes I wore hearing protection all of the time.

And I have a question for everyone.

How many of you ride motorcycles and only wear a half helmet (or no helmet) when you ride? And do you wear any hearing protection while riding?

The reason I ask is that the constant wind noise will definitely damage your hearing too. So make sure you wear a 3/4 or full face helmet or some type of good ear plugs when you ride.

 

[Speedo66]

Both, doing my best to preserve what hearing I have left.

 

[Brubz]

Thanks again for the helpful advice. I already have Howard Leight L3 passive earmuffs which are NRR 30. I will be adding foam plugs as soon as I get to the lgs. And my eye goggles that fit over my glasses will help. And yes I will be keeping my mouth closed while in the shooting lane.
Need to get to the range to work out my new Wrangler and my new Rough Rider.They don't make much noise but with my luck the guy in the next lane will be shooting a Colt Anaconda!

 

[gifbohane]

I had my ear Doctor make me some molded ear plugs and bought the most expensive pair of muffs I could find. And I still hear the blast too loudly. My tinnitus from USMC is very bad. As I recall no plugs and no eyewear, nothing.

Doctor said he cannot make and does not know of any plugs that completely eliminate the blasts.

Still hoping for a miracle. Next time I will ask about drummer's ear plugs.

 

[hso]

ask about drummer's ear plugs.

Well fitted foam plugs provide the highest protection rating, but require you roll them up and insert them properly.