Economics of Reloading...

[dk-corriveau]

OK Guys and Gals I need you help. I am running the numbers to see if I can justify entering the handloading world from a financial point of view. I will be reloading .45 ACP and I need to know a few things.

How many times can you safely reload .45 ACP brass before replacing it?

And about many rounds can you load with 8lbs of powder (assuming standard pressures)?

Thanks!

p.s. I know that there are reasons other than money to start reloading, but I want to use this as a starting point.

 

[redloki]

Brass is very resilient in the low pressure 45ACP. I usually ding them up or lose them before I wear them out. I have lost more shooting than I have thrown away because they were no longer reloadable. It is always a good thing to have plenty of brass. So, don't limit yourself if your buying new brass.
There are 7000 grains per pound of powder. Times that by 8 and you get 56,000 grains per 8 pounds of powder if my math is correct. How many loads you get out of that depends on what kind of powder it is and how many grains you use per round. For example only, you have (8lbs) 56,000 grains of Alliant Bullseye divided by 5 grains per round and that gives you 11,200 rounds.

I have to add that if I did not reload I would not get to shoot half as much as I do. The cost it took me to get started in reloading has more than paid for itself.

 

[JoeG52]

"How many times can you safely reload .45 ACP brass before replacing it?"

As many times as you can find them after shooting.

 

[Dave R]

As many times as you can find them after shooting.

That's the truth. It will be your limiting factor. If you can come up with a good way of collecting the brass, you can reload it practically forever.

BTW, if you have one or more friends that shoots .45acp, you shouldn't have to buy brass at all. I reload for 5 chamberings, and the only brass I have ever bought is .284Win, for my K-31 in 7.5 Swiss. I don't know anyone who shoots .284Win. My friends who don't reload give me their brass for other chamberings.

 

[45auto]

My ACP brass usually starts splitting around the 5-8 times reloaded. I rarely get past 10-12 reloads overall. Rims are pretty knicked up at that point also.

I must be doing something different than a lot of guys.

 

[TooTaxed]

I pick up more free brass at my range than I need, and inspect it for case splits and markedly oversize primer flash holes after tumbling but before sorting by make and priming. Therefore case life isn't an issue...it's free!

I currently load 200-gr SWCL, Win primers, 5.0-gr #231 at $2.78/50, and 230-gr RNP Ranier, Win primers, and 5.0-gr #231 at $5.26/50. Cost figures will vary due to component prices and shipping charges.

 

[P0832177]

The 45ACP is a pussy cat to reload. Using Titegroup it can be down right economical to use. I have brass that you can not even read the headstamp anymore. I occasionally loose one to split case. But, hell I have some RA 42 brass that is hell for stout!

I do sort brass I use Win and Fed for the 625's and all others for the USP's!

 

[MNgoldenbear]

Please realize that you will probably not save money reloading. What you WILL do is end up being able to shoot more rounds, more often, than you would have if you had to buy factory ammo. I'm not sure how many will agree with me on this one, but I found that I had some sort of budget allotted to shooting. (Before marriage and family, I think I could tell I was out of "shooting money" when there were no groceries in the fridge and no digits in the bank account ) I started reloading nearly the same time I started shooting, and I found that I didn't have more "spare" money laying around. What I was doing was going out to practice a lot more, and spending the day burning hundreds of rounds instead of one or two boxes of ammo. If you also approach this as real practice time (drills, goals, assessments, etc.) as well as just recreation, you can now afford to improve your marksmanship, which, of course, is a good thing. (It is nice, though, to be able to just blast away until your hands are sore and not have to worry too much about how much it cost you.) As others have said in various postings, if you aren't into "handcrafting" ammo, or if your firearms shoot factory ammo to your liking and you can afford it, factory is the way to go. A lot of people turn up their noses at factory ammo -- it can actually be very good -- a lot better than bad handloads! Most of us enjoy the loading experience, draw satisfaction from it, and know that it allows us to produce exactly the ammunition we want at very reasonable prices.

As far as durability, the brass for 45 ACP will probably outlast either one of us.

 

[1911user]

I set up a basic Excel spreadsheet to figure the costs of reloaded ammo. It's pretty simple to use. Here's a link if anyone wants it: Reload_Cost.xls

You must enter a number for the "times brass can be reloaded" otherwise that column will have a divide by zero error.

 

[redneck2]

On straight wall pistol brass the number of reloads seems to depend on the amount of flair on the bell when seating bullets

When I first started I was flairing too much and just getting a few reloads before splits. Now I flair just enough to barely see it and get a lot more life.

Any way you cut it, you get more life than the one-time use when buying factory stuff

 

[dmftoy1]

+1 on the spending more money reloading.

The difference with me (and I shoot primarily .45acp) was that I'd go in once a year when Dick's had a sale on the remington yellow box and buy everything they had. (at $8.99 a box). It would typically be about $200 worth of ammo. (usually 1k rounds). That would be my ammo allotment for the year so I would only take 2 boxes with me and when that was shot up that was it. That let me go shooting about once a month.

My $200 budget is now used up for 1 or 2 orders to Midway, Kead Bullets, etc. The difference is that I'm now shooting about 2-3k worth of .45acp a year. I find that anytime I'm at a gun show or a in a gun shop there's a can of power that I need, a box of primers, etc. It all adds up to quite a bit of money. The other thing that has cost me more than expected is that I find I want to reload for more caliburs, so that led to .223 and the case trimming tools, etc.

The one area where I do save significant money is reloading for the .500 S&W. I was paying $40 a box for 20 rounds and that got painful (literally and figuratively ) after the first 200 rounds. I've put 1k worth of ammo down the tube on the model 500 since starting back into reloading and I figure that alone has paid me back for the cost of my press, dies, etc.

Have a good one,
Dave

 

[bogie]

Yeah, if you're splitting .45ACP brass, you're doing something wrong.

Don't work the brass too hard. I just barely flare mine.

Figure bullet cost, primer and powder.

You can probably buy Wolf cheaper.

You can probably make more accurate rounds yourself.

What's your priority?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

My observations on reloaders with whom I have shot as is relevant to the economics of reloading...

1. None consider their time to be worth anything, hence justifying reloading as being very cheap. So none of the time searching the ground for cases counts.

In fact, none of these time factors count...
sorting cases
initial inspecting cases
depriming
cleaning
post cleaning inspection
actual reload time inclusive of setup and breakdown
amount of time jawing with other reloaders on what does or does not work best.

2. Shooters who practice defensive shooting drills using reloads tend to get more in the habit of learning how to find the reload that didn't fire more than using the opportunity to get proficient at tap-rack malfunction clearing. The really funny part is watching them search for the unfired round, finding it, inspecting it, and if nothing is readily apparently from visual inspection, watching them load it back into the gun to then see if it would fire on the second try.

3. Many reloaders spend more time trying to figure out what they have done wrong in reloading to cause their less than adequate groups as opposed to actually working on shooting skills. For defensive pistol distances, large group sizes aren't the reloads.

4. While it can happen with normal factory ammo, the only overpressure and squib incidents (causing barrel blockage not realized by the shooter during a timed drill) I have ever actually seen were due to use of reloads, resulting in damage to the gun and hence a huge added expense to the cost of reloading.

The one huge benefit of reloading, aside from cost savings, is that the relaoders seem to have a built in excuse for anything going wrong and that excuse is that the problem is with the reloads. If the group size isn't tight, it is the reloads. If the gun doesn't cycle right, it is the fault of the reloads. So the reloader and the reloader's gun are never at fault. I have a buddy that had a "very" reliable 1911 that rarely had problems as per his claim. Over the course of about 300 rounds, he had 3 or 4 problems. When queried, he assured me the gun was working 100% and it was not the gun's fault, but the fault of the reloads. Oh, okay.

If you have the time to dedicate and donate to reloading and you enjoy that sort of endeavor, then reloading is cost effective.

FYI, according to my reloading buds, Fiocchi brass for .45 acp seems to be more durable than many other brands of cases. They liked having me along because I shot Fiocchi and they would collect my brass. It made them mad when I switched to Blazer!

 

[armoredman]

On my weekend, when I have no place to go, and no money to get there, reloading is a perfect way to relax. I am also very, very careful of checking every case for powder, primer, etc, which is easier on a single stage. A turret press might be nice, though....
I have not had a bad round yet, and oddly enough, trying to get the most of my reloads has improved my basic bullseye skills. I haven't used them in IDPA/USPSA, as all the local matches seem to have disappeared.
If you are like Bill Gates, and every second lost is another $100 down the drain, then reloading would not be financially practical. If the idea of painstaking care and precision turns you off, then reloading is not for you. If all you worrk about is money, then reloading is not for you. It is a hobby, one that can be productive, and helps supplement the other great hobby - shooting!

 

[Thirties]

OK Guys and Gals I need you help. I am running the numbers to see if I can justify entering the handloading world from a financial point of view. I will be reloading .45 ACP and I need to know a few things.

How many times can you safely reload .45 ACP brass before replacing it?

And about many rounds can you load with 8lbs of powder (assuming standard pressures)?

Thanks!

p.s. I know that there are reasons other than money to start reloading, but I want to use this as a starting point.

I like to think of reloading as similar to baking one's own bread (from scratch). If you don't enjoy the process, then don't do it. The money you (may) save is well offset by the time spent doing it. If you don't enjoy the process, then don't do it. Did I already say that? Bread is rather cheap to buy. If you do the simple math, reloading will save you some money. But if you do the real math: accounting for all your equipment, your "research & development", and your loading time, I doubt the savings are very great.

I knew I'd like reloading even before I started. And now that I've been doing it a couple of years, I like it even more.

I shoot very little — maybe 50 rounds every cople of weeks. I certainly don't need to reload. To me it's as much fun as shooting (handguns and pistol caliber lever rifles, no centerfire rifles -- yet).

.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Trying to justify a hobby on economics is not wise in my mind. I reload because it is fun, I enjoy it, and it allows my "scientific juices" to perk and work on something. It gives me a lot of time to just sort of mellow out at the press, and contemplate something other then work, family and stress of the commute etc.

I find the time at the press, the time at the computer (like now) and the experimentation to be a lot of fun and very enjoyable in its own right.

You will know you are really into reloading when you are disappointed that you have worked out the "perfect" load for a particular gun. It almost requires buying another gun just to start over again.

 

[mtnbkr]

DNS, your observations are very flawed.

First, for point 1, the time is part of the hobby. Unless you're choosing between working for pay and reloading, the cost of your time doesn't factor in.

For points 2-4, your "friends" don't know what they're doing if they have that many reloading related issues. Either that or they're rushing "into production" a reload recipe that needs more testing with that particular gun. Any load I'd use for serious work has been tested for reliability and accuracy. It's no different than when I would work on my bike and take a long test ride days before entering a race. I didn't make changes to the bike the day of the race outside of emergencies.

Of course, if you're too stupid, lazy, careless, or busy to reload, then you shouldn't reload.

Chris

 

[mtnbkr]

You will know you are really into reloading when you are disappointed that you have worked out the "perfect" load for a particular gun.

That's the truth. I'm at that point with my deer rifle.

Chris

 

[trickyasafox]

people always talk about factoring in the cost of time for reloading. do you deduct the cost of your time from every tv you purchase? cause the time you spend watching it is time you could be working. your realllllly losing money on that one. . . . you should probably also stop sleeping. thats like, 8 hours of not work time a day thats a third less income over your life span! assuming you work from infancy to the grave, cause i mean really, who needs to do anything else?

ps you lose money in the time you spend shooting too. . . and posting on this website.

this was all very tongue in cheek so no one get offended by this. its just to point out that no matter what you do with your time your technically losing money by the standards a lot of people apply to reloading

 

[P0832177]

I love these threads! Reloading is a hobby as an extension of recreational shooting which is a hobby like stamp collecting or gardening! Hobbies are not about money! They are about doing something to relax and enjoy the fellowship others! People need to quit trying to make it about money! With their mentality it takes the fun out of it. Take for example hunting! Venison is the most expensive meat most of us will ever eat! Or what about that Walleye you ate last night? Quit trying to make reloading about money! Enjoy your sport! If you have the time and inclination embrace reloading! If you do not, buy factory ammo! To each his own!:banghead:

 

[dracphelan]

On the time/money thing on reloading. Some people try to sell others on reloading saying "you'll save a ton of money." And, this is not a good reason to reload (just a good one to give the wife).

 

[mtnbkr]

Yeah, you need more than a financial reason to go through the learning process, the equipment gathering, etc. For me, it was being able to handcraft loads that were hard to find at the time (and still are). The fact that I can load them for half or less than what the major manufacturers charge is icing on the cake.

Chris

 

[Deavis]

Your answer depends on your personal behavior and situation.

1) Under typical reloading conditions (using brass more than once and buying components in bulk) you will save money over comparable factory ammunition on a cartridge by cartridge basis. This is especially true for rifle/rare cartridges.

2) Unless you could be earning money during the time you reload, you cannot count your time as a strict expense, however you can quantify it as an opportunity cost if you so choose. Even at $40 an hour, it is still possible to save money on a cartridge by cartridge basis on comparable ammunition if your reloading habits are geared towards high output.

3) If you increase the amount you shoot due to the savings on a cartridge by cartridge basis, you will end up with no net savings by reloading. This is simple, it should not come as a shock

4) If you upgrade your reloading tools, it will take you some amount of time to recoup your initial investment but in the long run you will probably save money over comparable factory ammunition.

5) Reloading is a hobby, but it is also an enabler. Most people can't afford to practice at the volume they like without reloading. You are therefore increasing your skill level by reloading (if you practice properly) even if you have no net savings overall. If you would like, you can lay a price on the increase in your skill level and claim that as your overall savings.

6) Only a ill-informed or biased individual compares a handloaded, brass cased, match primed, Vitavouri loaded round topped with a Speer Gold Dot comparable to factory Wolf ammunition.

In the end, you need to assess your personal shooting habits and then make a decision. As many have pointed out, reloading is a hobby, but I like to consider it the enabler that lets me enjoy my real hobby... Shooting my guns.

 

[1911user]

In the end, you need to assess your personal shooting habits and then make a decision. As many have pointed out, reloading is a hobby, but I like to consider it the enabler that lets me enjoy my real hobby... Shooting my guns.

well said. Reloading is primarily an economic issue for me. I probably have at least $800 invested in reloading gear (not counting components on hand) and it's been paid for (through reduced ammo cost) several years ago. That doesn't even count how much I could sell it for (like that'll happen ). Another factor is independance, if I want a certain load and the factories don't offer it, I can make it if the components are available. I buy very little centerfire ammo anymore except shotgun shells and I just don't shoot many of those. Reloading almost forces you to buy in bulk quantities which lowers the cost of components or whole ammo.
You can shoot more for the same money by using a reloading press designed for higher speed loading (progressive) even if you put a reasonable dollar value on your time. Time reloading is time away from the family so my setup minimizes that while still providing plenty of ammo to support my shooting habit.

 

[The Bushmaster]

You know...I sit here and read these posts (well some of them anyway. Especially not Deavis' for sure ) and think to myself. "Self, you started to reload because you thought it would be cheaper. Well you found out that it was cheaper by the box". Only one problem with this theory. The cheaper you can reload the more you shoot the more you buy more components and up date equipment the more you load the more you shoot. In the end it is more expensive to reload. My suggestion to a beginner...Just like smoking...Don't start. Save your money for a rainy day or a vacation or more beer or ANYTHING. Just not reloading. Oh. And I forgot. when you reload you will need more guns to reload for. :banghead: