Educate me about 1911s

[archigos]

Its come time that I've begun thinking about buying myself a 1911 in the next few months. I know that I love the feel of those that I've handled, like the safety mechanisms (the manual safeties are typically easy and intuitive to manipulate, and I love the idea of backstrap safeties), and kindof want to move to a 45ACP for a part time carry gun.
However, I am completely ignorant to many of the features that are available on various 1911s. I want to make an educated decision as to what I get as it'll likely be my only 1911 for a while, but I know that if I ask "What 1911 should I get" I'll get a dozen different answers and none of them will come with an understanding of exactly what I want. I am not looking at any of the crazy expensive ones, as much as I'd like to - no Nighthawks or Wilsons for me, at least for the time being. I'll probably settle on a Springfield or Kimber, but that's beside the point.
What features are available, what do they mean, and what are reasons that one would like or dislike them?
Thanks to everyone who helps me out with this.

 

[mljdeckard]

There are a handful of basic features you might want to consider for carry.

G.I. style sights aren't great. Dark, small, and low. Only some historical replica guns have them, but if you got one, you might want to seriously consider getting better ones. I swear by Meprolight or Trijicon night sights, but they certainly aren't mandatory. One option to consider mught be a rear sight with a flat front edge you can use for emergency one-handed cycling.

There are different trigger lengths available. This is one of the things that makes a 1911 so versatile, you can switch out the trigger, grips, and mainspring housing for the correct size. I like long ones, not everyone does.

Some people like cocking serrations on the front end of the slide. I have them on my Kimber, but I don't use them.

I dropped the full-length guide rod for a G.I.style short one and plug. It's easier to strip, you have another method for emergency cycling, and I can't tell any difference at all in shooting.

Grips are a matter of preference. Some insist that traditional wood or plastic grips are the only ones you should consider. I once shot a Nighthawk with Aluma-grips which were WAY cool, but what I use is Hogue wrap-around finger groove grips. About $30, and they have a gooey grip even if the gun is wet.

Get good magazines. They aren't cheap, but they make a LOT of difference. Look at Tripp Research, Wilson 47Ds, etc.

Doodle around with cheap holsters if you want, but what most of us find is, we wind up trying them, hating them, and choking up cash for the good ones anyway. My main holsters are A Crossbreed Supertuck, a Galco Miami Classic, a Blackhawk Serpa OWB, and a UM fanny pack.

You need to buy 200 rounds of the ammo you plan to carry to make sure the gun can run reliably. Meaning, 200 consecutive error-free shots. You may want to get the magazines first.

If you have a 1911 that works, DON'T MESS WITH IT. They are great guns for carry. Most problems that happen with 1911s come when people (either bad manufacturers or table-top gunsmiths) mess with what already works.

I DON'T like: extended slide releases, (learn to drop the slide with your left thumb,) extended mag releases, (good way to drop the magazine from a concealment holster when you didn't want to,) or pin-on extras like magazine funnels or squared trigger guards. Compensators are not for carry. I like dark, matte finishes on everything. (But lots of guys like stainless for carry because in harsher climates it's much more rust-resistant.)

My Kimber Custom II is the best handgun I have ever owned. I use it for everything, and if I were allowed, I would carry it to war tomorrow. (There are a lot of Kimber haters in here, I think that the high number of guns Kimber sells means more reported failures, but not necessarily a higher RATE of failures. Mine is great.) But in all fairness, if I had to replace it tomorrow, I would look hard at Springfield Armory, Norinco, Taurus, Dan Wesson, and particularly an STI Spartan. STI not only makes some of the best 1911s in the world, their stance against selling in California earns my respect. The Spartan is assembled in America from partially imported parts.

Go to brownells.com and order their free 1911 catalog. All kinds of stuff you never knew you needed before.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I presume this is a carry/self defense gun. All it really needs are a decent trigger of around 4-5 lbs. and a "crisp" break, sights you can see, an enlarged ejection port and "ramped and throated" to feed hollowpoint ammunition. (The Springfield model called the "Mil-Spec" has all of these, BTW.) Most of the other features are in the "nice but not absolutely necessary" category. These include beavertail grip safeties with the accompanying hammer, extended thumb safeties, frontstrap checkering, night sights, etc. In the "superfluous gimmick" category are full length recoil spring guide rods, front cocking serrations on the slide and extended slide stops. The choice of a flat or arched mainspring housing (which forms the backstrap of the grip), length of the trigger, style of grips, etc. are a matter of personal preference and individual hand fit/pointing characteristics.

 

[gwnorth]

To add to the things you should try before you buy - I do not like either ambi-safeties nor extended safeties. Give me a plain jane, original style Colt GI safety (unless you are a lefty, then I suppose an ambi makes some sense). It does the job just fine, with the minimum of intrusiveness or unnecessary clutter.

 

[bigfatdave]

In the "superfluous gimmick" category are full length recoil spring guide rods, front cocking serrations on the slide and extended slide stops.

And ambi safeties (unless you're a lefty)
And front-strap checkering (my opinion, some people differ)
And magwells

But then I'm in it for carry, not competition or bullseye shooting, so if it is a liability it doesn't fly.

Read this article and everything Xavier has to say about the 1911, even where you don't agree his writing will be of interest.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

If possible, try and rent guns with and without beavertails and extended thumb safeties. Personally, I find beavertails increase shooting comfort as they don't dig into and abrade my hand. However, the shortened spur hammers (necessary to clear the upturned beavertail) are more difficult to manipulate. I don't find much difference between modern standard (not the tiny little tab of the WWII style) and extended thumb safeties. The extended ones are slightly easier to push up.

 

[KodiakBeer]

The whole beauty of a 1911 is that it was modular, before the term modular came along. Browning really was a genius!

My advice is to buy a very basic mil-spec type 1911 - you can get a stainless Springfield for $550 - $600 if you look around or blued/parkerized for a few bucks less.

Shoot it. If it doesn't feel just right you can change from an arched to a flat mainspring housing, or vice versa, long or short trigger, thicker or thinner grips - all to accommodate your hand. You can change the sights for slicker draw/concealment or put on adjustable target sights. You can buy a match barrel. You can leave the trigger stock (6-7 pounds) for defense, or put in a light match trigger for target shooting.

To me, that's the beauty of the 1911 - it's customizable to the individual. You can do most of it yourself with inexpensive after-market parts that are widely available, without having to pay a gunsmith. It's mostly a matter of disassembling and reassembling with the new parts (Trigger work - leave to a gunsmith).
You can google up step by step instructions with pictures, etc - it's easy, because Browning designed it that way.

So, my advice is to buy a very basic stock gun and make the changes to suit YOUR needs as you shoot it. Don't try and decide in advance what you're going to want.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

"Match grade" barrels are for target shooting, where a quarter- or half-inch reduction in group size can make the difference between a higher or lower score. On a self defense/carry gun they are a gimmick.

 

[.45Heater]

Kimber makes about 97 different models of the 1911. Get a catalog and go shoppin'. There's something there for most anyone lookin' for a 1911. If it's goin' to be used for a carry gun, consider an alloy frame. 2010 models will be arriving soon and bobtails will be in the line up (Super Pro Carries). Dan Wesson makes a nice alloy framed CCO. 4" barrel with a "semi-bobbed" grip. Front and rear checkering on the grip provides for a nice grip. If you're only going to buy one 1911, DON'T cut any corners. Buy the best you can afford with all the features you want straight from the factory. Custom upgrades get pricey really fast.

 

[Highcaliber]

I like the high cut frames, it places the gun lower in your hand, which helps with recoil and muzzle returning to point of aim. Also don't forget the Smith & Wesson 1911's. One of the best improvements on the original design is the external extractor, you'll find on the S&W's. Look for polished feed ramps and throated barrel for better hollow point feeding.

Also you might like the bushingless bull barrel on some of the Springer models. The lockup can actuallly be a little better, due to the increased surface area mating. Also look for dovetail mounted sights to allow for a wide variety of swaps later if desired. I tend to like front cocking serrations as an aid in quick press checks, but they are not required.

I would lean towards the S&W or Springfield lines, in a moderate price range, then you will have a reliable carry gun right out of the box, without any costly add ons.

Happy shopping.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Still another note about beavertails

Try to decide in advance if you really want the beavertail. To add one later requires $$$ to fit and blend it into the frame and more $$$ to refinish it (unless you chose a stainless).

 

[DFW1911]

I like beaver tail safeties, the eliminate the 1911 slide tracks I always used to get.

I like good sights. The original military sights just don't work for me.

I also like checkering on the front of the grip to help control recoil OR a wraparound grip for the same purpose.

Whatever model you end up getting, you can change a component if you don't like it or add something you feel you need or want.

Personally, I'd recommend a Springfiled Loaded model. It has everything I like and runs great.

Have fun and post some pics when you pull the trigger and bring it home!

 

[sideways]

I suggest your shoot some different models, for carry you might not want full size maybe a commander sized 4.25" or defender size 3" . I have chosen to carry 3" Kimber Ultra II. I do think you should purchase a middle priced piece for carry just for reliability reasons.Stick with Springfield, Colt, Kimber for costumer service I don't think you can beat Springfield but all three manufacture quality mid-priced firearms.

 

[BHP FAN]

I like GI,and I like RIA.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

springfield armory

 

[KyJim]

Here is a list of some things I would look for. They may not be important to everyone:

1. Sights -- Step up from the GI style sights because they are hard for most of us to see and mostly attract those wanting the genuine GI look. Get at least the fixed "high profile" sights of the Springer Milspec (not GI Milspec) or Colt XSE. A lot of people like Novak fixed rear sights but there are other choices out there as well.

2. Beveled magazine well -- Even a slightly beveled magazine well will help you change mags much faster. Most 1911s (above the very basic versions) have beveled well. Insert a mag and press the mag release button. If it drops out pretty much on it's own, it's been beveled.

3. Enlarged ejection port (often comes with flaring of the port). This can help ejection of cases without damaging cases. Again, fairly standard in most of today's pistols.

4. Polished ramp (in steel guns). Helps insure feeding, especially with hollow points. If using FMJ ammo, not necessary.

5. Beavertail grip safety. This allows both a higher grip for greater controllability and helps protect against "hammer bite" for those with fleshier hands. The minority seems to like the traditional Colt-style "duckbill" grip safety. I like the beavertail but own, shoot, and like the other style as well.

Other options which, IMO, are purely personal preference, unnecessary, or that I actually dislike:

1. Checkering, serrations, or stippling on frontstrap and mainspring housing. I like these but can live without them. You can always add a little grip tape (skateboard tape) if you find this helps.

2. Extended safety and mag release. I like the safety extended a bit but not a lot. Same with the mag release.

3. Mainspring Housing -- I like flat msh but some prefer the arched msh.

4, Front cocking serrations -- I prefer not to have these but others disagree, saying it helps to do press checks or to manipulate the slide solely with one hand (in an emergency).

5. Extended Magwells -- IMHO, good for competitive shooting games but undesirable if trying to carry concealed. Helps funnel the mag for quicker changes.

6. Ambidextrous safety -- I prefer single ("tactical") safety. The ambidextrous safety is good for lefties and some like them in case they lose use of the right hand/arm in an emergency. They are a bit weaker and, for a righty, exposes the safety lever so it may possibly be switched to the fire position accidentally.

7. Grips -- Purely personal preference and are the most easily changed item on the gun. Grips can change how the gun feels, especially going with the thin grips for smaller hands or using wrap around grips for larger hands.

8. Guide rods -- I like standard (GI) length guide rods but they also come in one and two piece full length guide rods. This is a whole subject by itself but I usually just go with whatever comes with the gun.

9. Rail -- An easy way to ugly up a beauty but it can be functional if you're the type of person who likes/needs flashlights, etc. hanging off the end of a pistol.

One of the reasons people like the 1911 is the trigger. So, if you have one with a crappy trigger pull, shoot it some to see if it settles in. If it doesn't have a competent smith to work on it.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

One of the reasons people like the 1911 is the trigger. So, if you have one with a crappy trigger pull, shoot it some to see if it settles in. If it doesn't have a competent smith to work on it.

Agreed. If it has a "crappy" pull it will be little or no easier to shoot than, say, a Glock.

 

[Rodentman]

I bought my first 1911 yesterday. I frankly didn't want a .45 since I don't have any .45's and it would be the 9th caliber I'd be reloading and I have enough with 8 calibers. So I got a Dan Wesson Sportsman in 10mm which is great! It takes a bit of practice to handle the barrel bushing and the slide stop to avoid an idiot mark. The first takedown and reassembly took me a bit of time since I wanted to be very careful. Now I am more confident. It's a great look and a great feel.

 

[kwelz]

Just buy an STI and be done with it.

 

[R.Ph. 380]

God Given

God gave us the Right to Carry, His Prophet, John Moses Browning gave us the blueprint. You can't improve perfection

Bill

 

[fistpoint]

You won't stop at one so buy one of each(old and new features).

A Springfield Milspec will give you the basic GI look with some necessary upgrades included. You get better sights and a flared ejection port as well as a few other minor upgrades over the most basic GI model. If you do choose this Springfield be aware that sellers often label the GI as a GI Milspec. If it has GI on the label, it's a GI period.

Then get your second 1911 with the fancy new style beavertail, hammer, mainspring housing and the other various parts you don't find on original style 1911's. With this second pistol the only big decision looks-wise will be front cocking serrations or not. And lastly the fire controls and interior pieces used from here on will determine your final cost(MIM vs tool steel for example).

Now you have one of each. If you start with the Springfield, keep in mind they have a lifetime warranty and pay for shipping both ways which makes anyones first 1911 purchase relatively trouble free if you lack the skills to troubleshoot it yourself should you have any problems.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

KyJim...that was a darn good post.

You saved me a lot of typing..Thank You.

 

[davegran]

A Happy Springfield Armory MilSpec Owner Chimes In

For me, the SA MilSpec is a great gun. It has all the features generally accepted for a reliable, good-shooting weapon for both self defense and non-bullseye competition (I shoot IDPA), and it doesn't cost a small fortune.

1. High-profile, three-dot sights.
2. Beveled mag well.
3. Flared ejection port.
4. Polished feed ramp.

My particular gun wasn't beveled quite enough on the grip safety, the thumb safety, and the trigger guard so that they would irritate my hand after a 100 round IDPA match. I kissed 'em with my Dremel (Horrors!) and they are fine now.

I have short thumbs and trouble reaching the mag release without shifting my grip or using my left hand so I ground a relief in the grip panel like Full Metal Jacket did on his Champion Operator. I may have to go to a .060" extended release button, since I still can't reach it easily.

For anything but precision shooting I don't think you'll find a better "bang for your buck" (Sorry....).

Dave

 

[jhallrv4]

Mmmmm! Dan Wesson! (Apologies to Homer Simpson)

Seriously, my first and only (so far) 1911 is a DW, and I love it. I personally couldn't get excited about 1911's, until I tried the arched MSH and bobtail commander. Now, that is what a gun should feel like in the hand. Having said that, I'm looking for a Kimber dinky for carry, I do like the DW but it'a a bit large and heavy for all weekend carry. (Weekday carry, alas, requires something more dressable). I do like the frontstrap checkering, but wish it was 30lpi like the newer ones, as opposed to the 20lpi on mine. I have no use for front cocking serrations, but that's me. Mine has Tritium sights, and they are magic at night.

Jeff

 

[Lastmohecken]

One thing to watch out for is used 1911's that have been monkeyed with. A used 1911 is not a bad thing, and a customized 1911 is not a bad thing, as long as the work is top quality, but watch out for a used gun that was worked on by Joe Blow who didn't know what he was doing or made poor choices in aftermarket add ons.

IMHO I would probably choose a loaded or semi loaded Kimber or maybe a Springfield, but I would probably make sure I got one with a Beavertail grip safety, because they really are better, and it's an expensive add on to do it right, and refinish the gun, as it will need to be shaped, unless you buy one of drop in models, and they are never as good, as the ones that require fitting.

If you are lefthand get an Ambi-safety model, if not, then you don't need or even want an ambi safety. Unfortunately, I am left handed, so I pretty much need one, but if I was right handed, I would not want one.