Educate me on REAL ID

[Boats]

Since I haven't been following the issue with the level of detail that some of you have, I will pose some questions to get up to speed.

1) What is REAL ID?

2) What are the main criticisms of it?

3) What is so different about it that having a photo DL and a Soc. Sec. # isn't already a problem with being nationally ID'ed via NICS or other databases?

4) Is there merit at all in the idea of a singular ID that is much more difficult to fake than current systems?

5) The objections aren't all based on the book of Revelations or are they?

Thank you.

 

[Lucky]

I think it gives your Homeland Security boss the ability to ignore any law he chooses, for one thing. That's a pretty big bonus.

 

[WeedWhacker]

The book of Revelations generally seems to deal only with physical marks or implants "on their right hand or forehead". I haven't heard anything about RealID being a tattoo or an implant.

That said, given the efficiency of most our gov't agencies (IRS, FEMA, BATFE), do we really want to give them even more information/power about ordinary, law-abiding citizens? Or, from a technical perspective, having a large amount of data, everything needed to steal an identity of one or all of the adults in the USA, in one big database? The fact that the gov't wants to run it is just icing on the cake.

 

[Veritas]

http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=f4cf7065-257b-4950-849e-5bfd2f5b5284

Give them the potential ability to know a whole lot about you, and your daily activities (included knowing every purchase you make).

Increased risk for identity theft.

Increased risk for personal security (same as with passports/rfid).

etc.

 

[Soybomb]

The objections aren't all based on the book of Revelations or are they?

Thats the crackpot objection, the others are more realistic. To me the most offensive part is making a national ID (papers please) with a ton of information on it (identity theft) that would be tied in to many different databases (government intrustion).

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/18840leg20050202.html covers more
http://www.realnightmare.org/about/21/

 

[Ira Aten]

Quote:
"The objections aren't all based on the book of Revelations or are they?"

If they were, then it would be an even more relevant argument than the invasion of privacy issue. The Constitution specifically promises the Federal Government shall pass no law "restricting" on's right to practice his religion.

Since it is "PROVEN" as fact, that MILLIONS of us "Crackpots" believe it could lead to eventually having a microchip implant, in order to to purchase food, then it is a direct violation of religious practice, to avoid anything they truly "BELIEVE" is a mark of the beast.

Funny how people will believe it is an affront if any religious activity takes place within the vicinity of an Aeithiest who claims no belief whatsoever, while those people who actually "Believe" or have faith in God, and the Bible being true, are scoffed at as "Crackpots" and their religious belief ignored, while we provide government funds to purchase prayer rugs and Korans for enemy combatants caught shooting at our troops, but want to require a microchip or "Real ID Number" for Christians who believe it to be against their religions. (That is just fine?)

The Government has a hemmorage if a single Islamic religious practice is interrupted, but if an American simply asks not to be marked with a microchip (based on religious belief) they are scoffed at, and told it must be done to increase "security" while at the same time, allowing millions of unknown aliens cross our border at will.

When did it happen, that Christian beliefs are not protected, yet Islamic belief must be respected under all circumstances? If I recall correctly, Christianity itself (on the whole) is not currently a clear and present threat to U.S. security is it?

 

[Thin Black Line]

Under Real ID you will have a computer chip in your ID and you will be
required to produce it to board any public transportation where the TSA is in
charge of clearing you to get on board --planes immediately come to mind.

Americans worried about being "inconvenienced" (aren't they always?) will
demand that their home state comply ASAP with Real ID. I think this is
suppose to be online nationwide by 5-11-2008 (signed 5-11-2005).

I can imagine that Real ID will be required for *firearms owners* and you
can expect this to be put through after 2008 when Hillary is in office. Given
that the sheople are apparently just fine with having their home phones
monitored 24/7/365, I doubt there will be enough of a domestic outcry to
derail such a measure in the Long Global War on Terrorist. After all, it will
keep the public safe and Mr and Mrs America will be fine with it "We
all have one, so why NOT note on the ID chip that you're a gunowner?!"

An implanted ID? Anyone really think that's not possible in the future?
I'd offer a $1000 tax credit toward a new LCD TV and the majority of the
sheople would line up to get tagged the next day....baaa-aah

 

[Ira Aten]

Unfortunately, you are 100 % spot on with your entire post, Thin Black line.

It is absolutely astounding how so many of our countrymen will will stand by and believe some of the most bizzarre Equine fecal matter to ever get squeezed off.

It is truly beyond my capability to comprehend how it has come about, that our Country started with men like Madison, Jefferson, and Mason, and we wind up with the likes of Chuck Schumer, Ted Kennedy, Billary Clinton, and George W. Bush telling us we must give up our rights, in order to gain security. (All while watching twelve million people illegally be not only allowed, but ENCOURAGED to walk across the border)

Now tonight, we are suddenly going to act as if we are closing the gate, after the horses got out, by putting National Guard act as if we are going to militarize the border. And not once, has anyone in government, mentioned Article I, Section VIII, and Article IV, Section IV, of the U.S. Constitution.

But gee, regardless of it being illegal, let's put the National Guard on the border to enforce the law. (Worked so well last time, in El Paso, when the military shot the Hernadez boy from 200 yards away, while he was herding goats and plinking with a .22 on his own property)

 

[Pork Fat]

I can certainly understand uneasiness at the thought of an I.D. that is trackable. However, there has GOT to be a way (that does not invade privacy)to have a meaningful check on voter fraud.

While it is easy to get whipped up over potential extensions of a national I.D. like microchip implants and gun owner tracking, they are only possible threats to our rights and freedoms. An ACTUAL, REAL infringement of all of our rights occurs in all national and many local elections. This is the massive mobilization of dead and nonexistent voters. When allied with the circuit-riding "early and often" voters, as well as those who are allowed to vote well after the polls are supposed to be closed, they form a powerful voting bloc.

Guess who they vote for. As much as people get bunched up over sinister, diabolical aspects of Bush's attempts to show that "We're gettin' a handle on this here terrah thing", it ain't the GOP. Voter fraud can tip tight races, and it hurts the Libertarians and Constitution Party folks as much as anybody. The Brady Bunch wins. Gun bashing wins.

I'm not a big fan of trading freedom for safety, but some of the crap pulled in the name of making voting less intimidating and more accessible makes me think that meaningful citizen identification has some merit. I'd like to think that states could do the job with Driver's licenses and State I.D. cards for those that can't get a license. But Maryland is preparing to make fraud easier with blissninny new legislation that would allow one to vote pretty much anywhere for days, and they can override the sure Ehrlich veto to do it. I can't trust my state's machine politics any more than I can the unintended consequences of the W.O.T.

I guess looking for the easy answers gets us in as much trouble as doing nothing, just takes a little longer.

 

[Beachmaster]

I believe all citizens should have a large BARCODE TATTOO on their behind, and when ordered to show their real ID, they drop trou and MOON the TSA!

 

[Hal]

1) What is REAL ID?

A National ID

2) What are the main criticisms of it?

The potential for misuse.

3) What is so different about it that having a photo DL and a Soc. Sec. # isn't already a problem with being nationally ID'ed via NICS or other databases?

A centralized database rather than disparate ones.
The term "database" is probably more universally misunderstood than the term "server". Everyone uses both terms, but very few people actually understand what they really are.

A crude analogy would be languages.
With one central language, everyone in the world could share communications without the confusion caused by interpertation. Run a web page through one of the online translators and you'll see what I mean.

With a centralized database, things are laid out in an orderly manner that conforms to specific criteria. Once the backend is in place, it can feed or be fed on by any number of other database systems.

A crude analogy here would be web pages and web forums.
Anyone with Internet Expolorer, Firefox, Opera, etc can browse and post to THR. You can "feed" the backend database system via the front end browser of your choice.
Where the two ideas differ, is that with a centralized database system, posts here at THR could include elements of posts and threads from TFL, without having to provide the external links - eg: www.thefiringline.com <--external link.

Back to the idea of one ID - think of it as a single "login" to the central system.

4) Is there merit at all in the idea of a singular ID that is much more difficult to fake than current systems?

Yes. Emerging standards and technologies - iris scans & IPV6 to mention a couple, are like "keys" to the aforementioned single "login".
Your "key" to the system can be so complex that it's beyond human ability to remember or decode.
For example - lets say your login to THR is:
"Poster" and your password is "123". Thats easy enough for anyone to remember.
Now change that to a login of:
"!!@$$@@%@%fasdsadt34534534vsd43536$&$#&POSTER4^##%$#ASFWESssfce3!!@$$@@%@%fasdsadt34534534vsd43536$&$#&POSTER4^##%$#ASFWESssfce3"

and a password of :

"ool'akdlkaldka';lkdlka';kld;klad';kla;lkd;alkd;klad;ladka;ldk;ald;ald;lkadka;kkaljdkladklajd;lakjdlkakljadadadadaddasadt34534534vsd43536$&$#&POSTER4^##%$#ASFWESsAREAd"

Having that information keyed to your iris pattern or your fingerprint or voice print, plus your individual IPV6 number would make it virtually impossible to "steal" or forge an ID.

Contrast that complex set of rules vs the rather simplistic ones in place with SS#'s.

Joe Sixpack Smith
123 45 6789

5) The objections aren't all based on the book of Revelations or are they? LOL! No. Even though there may be some correlation between the "mark of the Beast" and a way of iIDing an individual, theres more to it than that.
My main objection to it is the programming behind the system.
It's a well known fact that the majority of labor intensive programming is being done overseas in countries that have markedly different sets of values and religious and political ideals than we do here at home.
It's impossible to predict what "personality" is going to be infused in that programming and what it's long term impact on our society will be.

Back in the 1950's for instance, foley work (making cartoons) was a similar labor intensive operation. It was farmed out to Japan. Contrast the main theme of kids cartoons prior to that vs post to that.

The central "hero" of American cartoons was the individual - Popeye for instance. One lone individual taking on scores of bad guys.

Fast foreward to "The Teengage Mutant Ninja Turtles",,,now we see the influnce of Japanese society and values. The 3 (team) against the lone individual.

Software and data cubes (part of data mining), all take on similar "personalities" of their creators. This is what concerns me the most about the engines behind the technology.
Some are sure to lable it tin foil hat nonsense.

 

[Thin Black Line]

POTUS said:

Therefore, comprehensive immigration reform must include a better system for verifying documents and work eligibility. A key part of that system should be a new identification card for every legal foreign worker. This card should use biometric technology, such as digital fingerprints, to make it tamper-proof. A tamper-proof card would help us enforce the law and leave employers with no excuse for violating it. And by making it harder for illegal immigrants to find work in our country, we would discourage people from crossing the border illegally in the first place.

We're just requiring them to have the same "real id" that the rest of us
will have anyway....