Maine Says "No Thanks" to Federal Real ID Act

[LAK]

While I agree, in theory, that I don't want the federal or even the state government knowing more about me than they need, they already do

... etc

The point is, regardless of what they already know, it is becoming progressively acceptable for them to compile and distribute all this among various agencies - and make it public or accessible to private institutions and corporations. Where it is then subject to criminal use by people within each of those four categories.

It is also just one more incremental step to completely centralized government where it will be a "reasonable and logical" step to simply change payrolls and building signs from state to federal.

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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[Outlaw Man]

No, it's pretty much true that Real ID doesn't change anything substantial as far as what is accessable. But that's exactly what the federal government wants it to be. That way it passes with little opposition. Once it's in place it's much easier to give it more oppressive and restrictive functions.

Aside from all of that, the federal government has no authority to do it. I applaud Maine and Montana for standing up to them. It's about time.

 

[Cellar Dweller]

When someone hands me a drivers license, he's just handing me a card. He's not the person who the license says he is and I don't believe the license is valid until the computer database tells me so. Anyone forging an ID to pass scrutiny with law enforcement will have to be able to access the database to input the information on the false ID.

Does anyone NOT remember "Licenses for Bribes," one of many scandals involving former IL Governor/convicted felon George Ryan? ONE entry into the "national database" gives legitimate access to everything!

Can't question the System, because the .Gov says the System is foolproof. With RealID, "properly documented" migrants wouldn't NEED to travel by the truckload, they could drive/walk across the border. 50 guys named Jose Sanchez on the same bus, all with the same address but each RealID matches each individual? The System checks out, so where's the PC?

What's the point, besides "more tools for the toolbox" and "because we can?" OR, where's the benefit?

 

[Jeff White]

Cellar Dweller said;

Does anyone NOT remember "Licenses for Bribes," one of many scandals involving former IL Governor/convicted felon George Ryan? ONE entry into the "national database" gives legitimate access to everything!

Perhaps we should just eliminate any human hand in the process, that way there is no one to bribe? I don't recall anyone claiming that Real ID would eliminate the possibility of someone at a drivers license facility being bribed.

You guys are all running around screaming the sky is falling, the sky is falling when in fact that part of the sky fell on your head decades ago.

I'm not for Real ID, I don't care one way or another. It's a non-issue, because drivers license and state issued photo ID has been the defacto national ID card you all fear for decades. All that data has been linked together in computer databases and instantly available to the authorities for decades.

You are up in arms over something that was done to your privacy by politicians and bureaucrats who are long dead and buried.

There are plenty of privacy issues left to fight, but you are wasting all your energy on an issue that was settled before many of you were born.

Jeff

 

[Cellar Dweller]

It's a non-issue, because drivers license and state issued photo ID has been the defacto national ID card you all fear for decades.

No, it's not. It doesn't add anything, but it does have a significant cost!
Illinois has ~ 10x the population of Maine, it's reasonable to assume it's gonna cost some multiple of the $185 million ($140 per person) estimate for them. The state can't absorb it, because Illinois is broken. The state can't afford to hire more workers. Can't just raise license renewal fees across the board, because there's a significant # of elderly and the poor...so I get to pay $200 instead? $280? $420?

Does it help the WoT? Does it reduce illegal immigration? Does it help officers go home at the end of the day? (no, no and no.) A non-solution to a non-problem.

Article IV
Section 1. Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.

If Congress can define national standards for a state's D/L, does that not disrupt what had been a clearly understood/interpreted state's power? If so, where does it end?

 

[Jeff White]

Cellar Dweller said;

No, it's not. It doesn't add anything, but it does have a significant cost!
Illinois has ~ 10x the population of Maine, it's reasonable to assume it's gonna cost some multiple of the $185 million ($140 per person) estimate for them. The state can't absorb it, because Illinois is broken. The state can't afford to hire more workers. Can't just raise license renewal fees across the board, because there's a significant # of elderly and the poor...so I get to pay $200 instead? $280? $420?

Real ID means nothing to Illinois residents. Illinois has always required birth certificates or other so called positive ID to get a drivers license, maybe not always but 35 years ago, when I got my first DL, I had to show up with a birth certificate.

If you want to oppose Real ID on the grounds that it's too expensive or that it violates states rights, you have an argument. If you oppose it because it invades our privacy, you don't, 'cause that horse goit out of the corral decades ago.

Jeff

 

[ctdonath]

Depending on your state, this may or may not do anything new.

This requires ALL states to include certain information - not all do, and it will now be included. What information is new depends on your jurisdiction.
This requires all the information fit standard formats - so it can all be processed faster. Do not underestimate this ability.
This brings cooperation and compliance into compulsion. You can't get a driver's license without revealing your federal retirement plan, firearms ownership, and other completely irrelevant information (some explicitly, some will be linked once they have key data).
So much for the 4th Amendment.

Yes, much of the sky did fall long ago so to speak.
That doesn't mean we should shrug and accept the rest of it falling.
Pardon me if I object to the whole process a bit late; it did kinda get snuck into place.

If this didn't do anything new, there wouldn't be anything to compel, coerce, or complain about.

Strange how "papers, please" was not long ago a term referring to the worst of government control and repression.
Now even "conservatives" are considering it a "well duh".
This does not bode well.

 

[ServiceSoon]

My major problem is a clear and easy path to microchip implantations

"Section 202 Part B Sub Part (9) A common machine readable technology." To me this means RFID.

If we let this happen we have officially become cattle or serfs. This whole scenario is wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start. Person liberty and privacy would be the best place to start. I'm sure the ACLU is fighting this proposition.

Let's take an example from history about accepted systems created that looked good at the time they were created
1. Hitler and the "papers" Jewish people had to carry...case closed. You can see the comparison there without even trying.
2. Look at what the social security system was developed for and what it has become today. That only took 75 years to accomplish. That is the most preposterous scam ever created in American history. I think the majority of Americans would agree with that statement. It was created for good but has been used for evil.
3. American tax code and the rights of the IRS.

Jeff White already wrapped this up and I have to agree that this battle has already been lost.