Wow, a zombie! Just FYI, 300 yards is about how far I can hit anything with 7.62 x 39 ammo from an AK or a SKS. I've tried. But that was shooting off hand. It's hard to find a way to shoot from a rest with an AK. Yeah I guess you can rest the gun on the mag but it never seemed like a good idea to me.
Effective Range Of An Ak 47/ 7.62x39
- Thread starter DSGB610
- Start date
- Status
WardenWolf
member
Roughly 400 yards if you scope it or put on a good red dot. Maybe a little more. High-end ones like SGL-21's and VEPRs can hit roughly 2 MOA. It'll easily hit a torso at that range.
I'm a big proponent of optics on an AK. Their quick-change side rail system is spectacular and offers unrivaled versatility.
I'm a big proponent of optics on an AK. Their quick-change side rail system is spectacular and offers unrivaled versatility.
JFtheGR8
Member
Not likely, seeing as few of them are still around reading this thread that's TEN years old.
That's funny right there.
justin22885
member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
- Messages
- 2,102
i use an AK as my primary go-to rifle, however, with the caliber choices available to me (7.62x39, 5.45x39, and 5.56x45) i went with the 5.56, ballistics on the 7.62 are not anything im going to be fond of, it hits hard inside 200 yards, sure, but outside of that range the 5.56 carries more energy and will shoot much flatter throughout its entire trajectory, and inside 200 yards the 5.56 is carrying all the energy it needs.. its an all around much better caliber
the russians recognized this and they pretty much abandoned the 7.62x39 after only 27 years in service, switching to the AK-74 and 5.45x39 in 1974, theyve been using this caliber for 41 years now and will likely continue to do so in the foreseeable future
so as badass as people like to think the 7.62x39 is because the ruskies used it, they fail to realize they also abandoned it as well and went in a different direction shortly after, so the russian military didnt think it was as good
i think the AK is better than the AR/M4/M16, but i think the 5.56x45/223 is better than the 7.62x39
the russians recognized this and they pretty much abandoned the 7.62x39 after only 27 years in service, switching to the AK-74 and 5.45x39 in 1974, theyve been using this caliber for 41 years now and will likely continue to do so in the foreseeable future
so as badass as people like to think the 7.62x39 is because the ruskies used it, they fail to realize they also abandoned it as well and went in a different direction shortly after, so the russian military didnt think it was as good
i think the AK is better than the AR/M4/M16, but i think the 5.56x45/223 is better than the 7.62x39
jimbeaux82
Member
I just watched a Travis Haley video on AK's where he addresses the subject. He set up a full silouette target at 500 yards and proceeded to hit it with every shot from a 7.62 x 39 AK with a red dot sight. Obviously he had practiced this a bit but the point is that he was able to do it consistently at 500 yards.
Jackal
Member
The effective range isnt just about the gun, its mostly about the shooter. Assuming iron sights. Average shooters are likely to have an effective range of around 200m. Experienced shooters will be ringing steel at 600m.
I have 5 round mag for an AK but I don't have the AK anymore. I do have an SKS. With the stock 10 round mag it's easy to shoot off a rest but as lxd55 pointed out those rifles are meant to be fired off hand at shorter distances. I know they have the ladder sight but the bullets just won't fly true past a certain distance.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
I found that the Hungarian 20-rounders are short and straight enough to allow an AK to shoot from a Hoppes benchrest and sandbag. I found that supporting the forend as far back as possible helped improve consistency and accuracy.
henschman
Member
My WASR 10 held chest-sized groups out to 400 yards from prone with Golden Tiger. I'd say the 400m (440 yard) figure is a pretty good one.
C-grunt
Member
Ive always considered a rifles effective range to be at least as long as the round stays supersonic. A 125ish grain .30 caliber bullet at 1000 FPS is going to put a hurting on you. It should act similar to 9mm ball ammo.
Even out at extended ranges you can still deliver harassment fire on the enemy. Harassment fire can kill you just as dead as specifically aimed fire if you're unlucky enough.
Having been shot at by 7.62x39 rifles and machineguns a fair bit in my younger days I never considered if I was out of "effective range" when they were wizzing by and impacting near me. Now old Johnny Jihadist wasnt likely going to hit me at 500 meters with his AK, but I wasnt going to stand out in the open and give him the opportunity for that luck shot.
Even out at extended ranges you can still deliver harassment fire on the enemy. Harassment fire can kill you just as dead as specifically aimed fire if you're unlucky enough.
Having been shot at by 7.62x39 rifles and machineguns a fair bit in my younger days I never considered if I was out of "effective range" when they were wizzing by and impacting near me. Now old Johnny Jihadist wasnt likely going to hit me at 500 meters with his AK, but I wasnt going to stand out in the open and give him the opportunity for that luck shot.
Ohio Gun Guy
Member
C-grunt - Thanks for being willing to go "down range"!
I shoot mine at the gun club and can usually hit a clay target at 150 yards +/- (The back stop) roughly 50% of the time. When I shoot it at paper however, my groups are 3-4" Lately....
I personally think 300 yards / Meters +/- is all it's really going to do other than luck ^. Which, is what I believe the soviets had in mind when the built & designed them. The military AK is a comprise of a sub machine gun and a rifle, with an intermediate cartridge. High volume firepower, at a bit longer range than a ppsh. (The AR is a scaled down rifle, IMO)
BUT It is one of my favorites to shoot at the range....it's just fun!
I shoot mine at the gun club and can usually hit a clay target at 150 yards +/- (The back stop) roughly 50% of the time. When I shoot it at paper however, my groups are 3-4" Lately....
I personally think 300 yards / Meters +/- is all it's really going to do other than luck ^. Which, is what I believe the soviets had in mind when the built & designed them. The military AK is a comprise of a sub machine gun and a rifle, with an intermediate cartridge. High volume firepower, at a bit longer range than a ppsh. (The AR is a scaled down rifle, IMO)
BUT It is one of my favorites to shoot at the range....it's just fun!
Mosin Bubba
Member
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2012
- Messages
- 1,936
Both the AK and the SKS have a default "battle setting" on their rear sights - pull it all the way back, and you are set for 300 meters. That's probably what the designers figured those guns's maximum range to be. And since the 7.62x39 starts dropping like a rock at long range, I don't think you would have much luck beyond that distance anyway.
I agree with Ohio Gun Guy, in that the AK was built more like a big submachine gun than a small rifle. That's not a knock against the platform, just what I think it was built to do, and it fulfills that purpose pretty well. But with a short barrel, really short sight radius, a fairly short range round, and a design that sacrifices accuracy for ease of manufacture and reliability, it's clear that pinpoint long-range shooting wasn't high on the Soviets' priority list.
I agree with Ohio Gun Guy, in that the AK was built more like a big submachine gun than a small rifle. That's not a knock against the platform, just what I think it was built to do, and it fulfills that purpose pretty well. But with a short barrel, really short sight radius, a fairly short range round, and a design that sacrifices accuracy for ease of manufacture and reliability, it's clear that pinpoint long-range shooting wasn't high on the Soviets' priority list.
Last edited:
d2wing
Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,431
True Mosin. I too was down range. There is a reason AR have been winning battles against AK for over 40 years. I have been there and won gun battles. You can make all the claims you want about AK's and the 7.62x39 all you want. The Russians changed calibers because they knew they were outgunned. You can ride unicorns and shoot 500 yards all you want. I know better.
henschman
Member
How much do you think the specific rifles had to do with winning those gun battles? I'd say that factor is pretty low on the list of reasons.
First thanks to all you people who stood in the line of fire because the country asked you to do it. Second I believe our training has a lot to do with why we win battles. The AK certainly is not as sophisticated as the AR but they will sling a lot of lead in the wrong direction (as far as our side is concerned). We definitely have the range on them and that pays off in the desert and mountain areas where clear shots are available. But we shouldn't forget that our soldiers are actually trained to a high degree compared to Hadji.
I guess I'm totally basing this belief on the movies being made and the stories I hear from vets. I think about Lone Survivor and how just a few highly trained soldiers really hammered the bad guys for a long time and from what I understand all were using 5.56 rifles. They weren't your basic M16's but they did fire the same round and if the movie is accurate at all (and I have every reason to believe it is) then it was far more effective in large part because our guys could hit what they shot at better than the bad guys could.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this but isn't that a big part of why we win battles? In Vietnam and even going back into Korea the 7.62 x 39 round was very effective because of sustained fire from the AK and the SKS and because the distances were shorter and the terrain much more dense with vegetation. But even in Vietnam we used our rifles very effectively from all accounts I've heard. When you can't see the bad guys sustained fire is about all you have and our soldiers could carry lots of ammo which allowed them to use massive sustained fire when they needed it. We didn't lose battles in VN. We just lost the war or rather the politicians lost it for us. Our soldiers performed great IMO.
I know the military teaches the use of weapons very well and I know that a lot of people grow up shooting and learn from those guys coming back from the wars. I sure did. I came close to signing up but found out I was about to get hoodwinked by a recruiter half an hour before time to sign. I wish they could have let me serve with just that one stipulation but they wouldn't. I just wanted to be stationed at the same base as my wife most of the time. I understood deployment but it was the Air Force I was about to join so it would have been much easier to keep us reasonably close a reasonable amount of time. To be honest I probably would have signed up anyway but my wife didn't want to do it. She was mad that they had lied to us more than anything.
But that's a whole other story. Again I think the 7.62 x 39 can be used more effectively than it is often used by peasant soldiers who never saw a rifle before they got in their army. And of course there are the kids in the armies around the world. They hardly exude competence when what I see is a 10 year old boy carrying an AK.
I guess I'm totally basing this belief on the movies being made and the stories I hear from vets. I think about Lone Survivor and how just a few highly trained soldiers really hammered the bad guys for a long time and from what I understand all were using 5.56 rifles. They weren't your basic M16's but they did fire the same round and if the movie is accurate at all (and I have every reason to believe it is) then it was far more effective in large part because our guys could hit what they shot at better than the bad guys could.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this but isn't that a big part of why we win battles? In Vietnam and even going back into Korea the 7.62 x 39 round was very effective because of sustained fire from the AK and the SKS and because the distances were shorter and the terrain much more dense with vegetation. But even in Vietnam we used our rifles very effectively from all accounts I've heard. When you can't see the bad guys sustained fire is about all you have and our soldiers could carry lots of ammo which allowed them to use massive sustained fire when they needed it. We didn't lose battles in VN. We just lost the war or rather the politicians lost it for us. Our soldiers performed great IMO.
I know the military teaches the use of weapons very well and I know that a lot of people grow up shooting and learn from those guys coming back from the wars. I sure did. I came close to signing up but found out I was about to get hoodwinked by a recruiter half an hour before time to sign. I wish they could have let me serve with just that one stipulation but they wouldn't. I just wanted to be stationed at the same base as my wife most of the time. I understood deployment but it was the Air Force I was about to join so it would have been much easier to keep us reasonably close a reasonable amount of time. To be honest I probably would have signed up anyway but my wife didn't want to do it. She was mad that they had lied to us more than anything.
But that's a whole other story. Again I think the 7.62 x 39 can be used more effectively than it is often used by peasant soldiers who never saw a rifle before they got in their army. And of course there are the kids in the armies around the world. They hardly exude competence when what I see is a 10 year old boy carrying an AK.
jbauch357
Member
I can hand my Saiga 7.62x39 with POSP to a novice shooter and have them ring 20" steel at 200 yards all day long, put somebody more familiar with rifles behind it and they'll hit ~80% on an 8" steel at 200 yards.
I'm sure some shot out rusted war relic is going to be pie plate accurate at best and is what probably gave AK's their reputation, but any decent AK in good condition should be able to easily obtain 4MOA.
Wow, old thread.
I'm sure some shot out rusted war relic is going to be pie plate accurate at best and is what probably gave AK's their reputation, but any decent AK in good condition should be able to easily obtain 4MOA.
Wow, old thread.
- Status
