Empire State shooting

[Skribs]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/new-york-empire-state/index.html?hpt=ju_c2

Haven't seen any threads pop up on this yet, but I didn't look too closely. Apparently a man in NYC was laid off a while back, and shot an ex-coworker. During the attempt to escape from police, the man was killed and 9 bystanders were wounded.

Some interesting notes from the comments:
1) This occured in the city with some of the strictest gun laws in the country, and it was done by a women's accessories designer (not a "redneck").
2) "If only someone had a large soda to throw at him" was probably the best comment I've ever seen.

Of course, antis are saying "we need stricter gun control so people can't bring guns into NYC", but there's no evidence that I've seen that says this guy legally purchased his handgun.

Personally, I'm mostly concerned with the accuracy of the cops on this one.

 

[X-Rap]

There are probably few places in the country that are more protected than the ESB and he still got off quite a few shots. I'm not claiming that an armed citizen would have made any difference or just got plugged along with the gunman but there are plenty of places that we all go that have little to no police protection, of those places I say get ready and be ready.
As a side, I read that 19 were shot in a half hour or something last night in Chicago, also a town famous for its gun hatred

 

[Sky]

Skribs I did a thread on N.Y. and the Chicago shootings last night. Maybe the mods can merge mine with yours....like your comments better than mine!

 

[Certaindeaf]

Don't the cops over there use the "NY Glock" with like the twenty pound trigger pull?

 

[Trent]

They said there were 8 people "hit" during the exchange of gunfire between cops and the aggressor.

They don't say WHO hit WHO.

I'm hoping (really, really hoping) that the cops didn't hit the bystanders, because of what it would do to them both personally, and professionally. Having shot an innocent, that can be a hard thing to live with, I'd imagine.

Thoughts to the family of the victims. Some folks are having a real bad day today, regardless of politics..

 

[Skribs]

Don't the cops over there use the "NY Glock" with like the twenty pound trigger pull?

Yep, and I've read articles claiming that the NY Glock trigger is actually a safety hazard - not very likely to prevent NDs compared with a normal trigger, but likely to enable misses.

They said there were 8 people "hit" during the exchange of gunfire between cops and the aggressor.

They don't say WHO hit WHO.

They did say that at least some of the bystanders were hit by cops. However, the hospital stated that there were only minor injuries for those hit by stray bullets.

 

[desidog]

From CNN:

"Some may have been accidentally shot by police officers," Kelly said.

This may get interesting.

 

[Trent]

Just in:

Shooter used a Star 1911 8 round capacity

 

[Skribs]

Well that's why he only murdered one person. Had he had an 11 round capacity he would have gone nuts on a spree...

 

[X-Rap]

Expect the mayor to blame the shooting on a gun that came from outside of the protective NYC umbrella. High capacity won't be a media issue, they are already onto the semi auto angle.

 

[Trent]

Just in -

Some of the innocents hit, were hit by law enforcement

 

[Certaindeaf]

He could probably do the reverse "twinkie defense" (no big gulps.. obviously he had a dire diabetic episode) but he's dead.

 

[Zoogster]

It sounded like all of the bystanders hit were hit by police, but it was early into the investigation so clarity on the issue is absent.


They got video of the guy pulling a gun on police supposedly. So it should be apparent if he even got shots off. From the sounds of it once he pulled a gun the cops unloaded a large barrage of fire in his direction, and that accounted for both his death and the bystanders hit.



It really sounds more like a single guy went out and shot a single person. Then the police response resulting in bystanders hit and the proximity to the Empire State Building caused what normally wouldn't even make the news beyond the city it happened in to become a national story.
Then Mayor Bloomberg got his chance to demonize guns in the press.

 

[razorback2003]

The police need to practice more than a couple times a year. Don't shoot at what you can't hit should be taught.

 

[Trent]

"Be aware of your target and what's beyond it"

Tunnel vision sucks.

 

[TrickyDick]

If I'm not mistaken; The Empire state building is a "Gun-free" zone, i recall someone being arrested not too long ago for trying to check in their Concealed weapon.

So You're telling me a "GUN-FREE" zone didn't stop a criminal from shooting people, But instead disarmed law abiding citizens? Say it ain't so!

 

[Zoogster]

Well in defense of their shooting, they are hampered by horrible trigger pulls as a policy.

Rapid firing with a trigger pull that is high enough that it requires pulling hard enough to throw off the sights gives such results.

Policy requires a 12 pound trigger pull from my understanding.
It is quite common for NYC police to fire large numbers of shots to score hits.

A light trigger pull requires teaching cops to keep their finger off the bang switch. Apparently the city has decided a trigger pull that requires a very conscious trigger pull, so conscious it is actually exercise for your finger, is better. A trigger pull so ridiculous you could twirl the gun on your finger and even pick the gun by its trigger and not have it go off.
They could probably pull the gun from its holster by the trigger and not have it discharge.
By comparison a gallon of milk weighs around 8.5 pounds.

A 12 pound trigger pull is just asinine.
So when faced with the threat of immediate death they point and squeeze, squeeze hard, and fast.
It has got to be really frustrating having to shoot at someone pointing or shooting a gun at you with a 12 pound trigger pull.

 

[scaatylobo]

Outside the bldg

The shooting was outside the bldg.

He shot the president of the company that fired him a YEAR ago [talk about holding a grudge ].

He had a "spare LOADED" mag on him also.

I have a Glock [ model 19 ] with a NYC trigger and had it taken out as it was HORRIBLE.

Bloomtard is going to do lots of dodging since it happened in his city,and his police [ the only ones who should have guns ] shot more people than the perp.

 

[hso]

Folks, this is one of those "guy with a grudge" stories and there's not much to discuss about the shooting itself.

If we want a thread on the political fallout that might fly.

Can we focus on the way this is being reported and how the NYC and Bloomberg are treating it and being treated and drop the discussion of the shooting details directly?

 

[berettaprofessor]

Earlier, CNN quoted Bloomberg as stating this happened in the "safest large city in the nation", praising the police, and alluding to the "national gun problem". That quote has been taken off the articles already, near as I can tell.

Please God, let the weapon have been purchased illegally from someone within the NYC area.

 

[coloradokevin]

A few things:

1) I'm a law enforcement officer. As such, I'm one of the few outsiders that can legally carry a gun within NYC. Even I found that city to be terribly anti-gun, even for me.

2) The Empire State Building is one of the places that won't even allow police officers to carry there, unless they are on-duty NYPD (I didn't try carrying there, but it was spelled out in their policy).

3) My department also requires the "NY Trigger". Any competent shooter should be able to overcome this silly trigger, and still put their rounds on target. I don't like the NY Trigger, and I don't like what it represents (an idea that the trigger will make officers safer, rather than retraining the officers who have had ND's with conventional triggers). We got the NY Trigger after a female officer gave herself a racing stripe down her leg from reholstering with her finger in the trigger guard. Yeah. I've shot my NY Trigger equipped Glock in IPSC matches (for practice) and have still placed in the middle of the pack in Limited with this un-ideal setup. Still, I've been told that there are two NY Triggers available, and that we're using the lighter one. I haven't measured ours, but I think it is supposed to break at 12 lbs (silly).

4) This is hardly a shooting that warrants national news. A guy shot someone he had a grudge against. People do such things on a regular basis. They also stab them, poison them, burn their houses down, beat them with clubs, etc. Just yesterday I heard a story about a local woman who tried to poison her husband over some alleged infidelity. But, somehow this is a national news case. Silly.

 

[stumpers]

Is it possible that this situation might have had a better outcome if the "safe" city of New York followed a European example and the police were not armed with handguns?

From first glance, it seems the police harmed more people in trying to stop the shooter than the shooter himself harmed.

 

[Reloadron]

When things like this happen there is a good possibility some of the information in early reports might be inaccurate. As of now the story runs a little like this:

NEW YORK -- Two law enforcement officials in New York City say a recently fired store worker shot a former colleague to death and then randomly opened fired on others near the Empire State Building.

The officials say eight other people were struck by bullets but those injuries are not believed to be life threatening.

Fifty-six-year-old Jeffrey Johnson opened fire with a .45-caliber pistol at about 9 a.m. today on the Fifth Avenue side of the building. He was shot dead by police.

Nine others were hit by gunfire. Mayor Michael Bloomberg said that some of the victims may have been hit by police bullets. The victims are expected to survive.

However, it is difficult to say. All that is really known is that a fired or released employee apparently returned to his place of employment with a heck of a grudge. Apparently, the strict NY gun laws do not apply or do much good. Anyway, I am sure this will take time to sort out and solid factual information provided.

Ron

 

[W.E.G.]

I watched Bloomberg give his speech live on CNN.

I could tell it was KILLING HIM that the gun was an 8-shooter.

Shooter lived in Manhattan.

What do you want to bet that the gun was registered in NYC?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Mayor Michael Bloomberg said that some of the victims may have been hit by police bullets.

Apparently, they reached this conclusion by the number of victims vs. number of rounds expended by the shooter. Gawker has a picture of the downed shooter taken from above (nearby building it looks like).