Encounter with Anti-CCW

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Dbl0Kevin

If just 10% of them have the same elitist attitude of this old timer its no wonder.
So if 10% of a certain group are ignorant idiots then it's acceptable to label the rest of the group? Wow that's certainly great logic. Please stick to the topic at hand and don't turn this into a cop-bashing fest.

The guy was a total jerk and I'm glad you stepped up to say something. I'd have to say I would have too if I were there. One thing that drives me nuts like no other is when someone spouts off that they know something when they don't.
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Yeah, and if 10% of gun owners are drunken rednecks, some people will think all gun owners are that way too.
 
This idiot has the same thought train as a middle-schooler.
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You insult middle-schoolers. More like an 18 month old who's learned to say "MINE!"

Buffoons like that are usually all talk. The few who aren't MUST be left broken and humiliated.
 
Precisely. It also isn't a cop's job to know or intepret the law in the first place, beyond what is necessary to make arrests. A cop could watch you snort 3 lines of white powder and then shoot a couple people, and you're still a "suspect." The police suspect you've committed a crime, but aren't qualified to make that decision.

The police's job is to get you to trial. The lawyer's job is (ideally) to interpret and explain the law for the jury. The jury's job is to decide innocence or guilt. And the judge's job is to pass sentence.

The police can testify and present evidence, like any other witness, but that's all they can really do in court. Their job is done when a suspect is in jail, before innocence or guilt is determined.
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Wow where do I begin with this? What part of the law enforcement field do you work in? I'd venture to say none because it is VERY MUCH a police officer's job to know the law.

How exactly is an officer supposed to make an arrest if he or she doesn't know the law? When a police officer makes an arrest he has to draw up a summons or a warrant detailing exactly what law the person broke and how he broke it. There are different elements to each charge and if you don't know them then you can't arrest someone without putting yourself, and your department at extreme liability.
 
This was three hours ago and I am still mad. This kind of eleteist bull really ticks me off. It's bad enough being an anti. But to put forward totally incorrect info for the express purpose of scaring somebody into NOT getting a CCW?
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But ... what he told the kid wasn't wrong. It must have been true, because he believed it, and he was a retired LEO who can carry anywhere, any time. So who are you to suggest that anything he said might not be correct?

The irony is, he is exactly the type of LEO that makes you need to carry that AG's pamphlet, yet if you ever encountered him on the street, do you believe for a nanosecond that he would even bother to look at that silly piece of paper when he already knows the law?

Good thing he's retired.
 
Deanimator said:
Malicious arrogance should be punished with a studied and implacable cruelty.
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Would you mind terribly if I were to appropriate that as a signature line? That strikes me as a philosophy to live by.
 
Yeah, I despise anti-civilian gun ownership/carry cops. The officer that processed my CCW application and took my prints gave me all sorts of crap about why I needed a gun and how "people like me" make his job harder because this just puts more guns (non cop) on the streets. Uh, yeah, dude... The person that takes the time to get training, fill out paperwork and have it notarized, pay almost $100 and submits himself to a background check and put his prints on file is really the person you have to worry about. Not joe gang banger that just ignores all that stuff and rams his gat down the front of his ass draggin' homie pants Mexican style. Officer even asked me why I just didn't take up tennis or golf if I wanted a hobby. I didn't argue with the guy since I didn't think it would be wise to do so in the police station, but I so wanted to ask him why HE carries a gun. Um, I guess YOU don't understand the need for every day citizens to be able to defend themselves, too? :rolleyes:
 
Evan, MAJOR thumbs-up for your clear, calm handling of the situation and correction of the blowhard ex-sheriff's attempts at misinformation. Guys like that really do give the rest of the LEO's a bad name, unfortunately :fire:, but you dealt with him pretty much flawlessly, as far as I could see. Well done.
 
Here is the reason that those of us (especialy those of us who OC) get aggrivated with cops in general when 10% of them don't know the laws.

I am a mechanical engineer. I have friends who are civil engineers.

How would you like it if 10% of US did not know our jobs? Did not know the laws of physics? I mean, I guess it would be great if 10% of the vehicles would break down the second you drove em off the lot cause 10% of the mechanics didn't know *** they where doing. 10% of the bridges collapse cause 10% of the CEs don't know how to design one. 10% of every home catches fire because 10% of electricians forgot that red is positive and black is negative?

A group where 10% of the people do not know their jobs, that is ridiculous. It makes the rest look bad.

Yes, I had a GOOD encounter with a city officer yesterday while OC'ing at a local fast food place. (Employee went running ot the officer about me having a gun, he informed her that it was perfectly legal since I was not trying to conceal it) BUT that doesn't mean that I am happy with all cops in general after the hasseling the week before last I got while OC'ing.

the other thing that does not help, say 90% DO know the laws as far as OC and CC, well, when they see me at Wally World, they aren't gonna come bother me or even speak with me since they know what I am doing is legal, so I may walk past 9 cops without a problem, but then I walk past that 1 cop who doesnt know his job, and gives me a hard time. this means though that 100% of my interactions with cops about OCing were BAD.
 
Uhhh... black is positive and white is negative...
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Depends on what kind of wiring you're working with. For instance, in computers, there usually isn't a white wire, just a red and black wire, and sometimes a brown wire, which is the ground. In this case, red is positive and black is negative. Unless you're dealing with something such as a USB componant or the power hookups for the LED's on the front of the case. In that case, the wire that is colored something other than brown or black is positive (there are usually multiple positives and multiple negatives involved in such hookups).
 
Here is the reason that those of us (especialy those of us who OC) get aggrivated with cops in general when 10% of them don't know the laws.

I am a mechanical engineer. I have friends who are civil engineers.

How would you like it if 10% of US did not know our jobs? Did not know the laws of physics? I mean, I guess it would be great if 10% of the vehicles would break down the second you drove em off the lot cause 10% of the mechanics didn't know *** they where doing. 10% of the bridges collapse cause 10% of the CEs don't know how to design one. 10% of every home catches fire because 10% of electricians forgot that red is positive and black is negative?

A group where 10% of the people do not know their jobs, that is ridiculous. It makes the rest look bad.
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Ok let's examine this shall we? First of all the 10% figure isn't even factual, it's just a number someone came up with off the top of their head. The real number could be higher or lower, who knows.

Any job has people that are better at it than most along with people who have no business doing it. As for engineers have you ever watched the History Channel show Engineering Disasters? Surely shows that there are some engineers that don't know what they're doing.

Mechanics? If you've never been the victim of a numbskull mechanic then count yourself lucky. I've seen and heard of plenty of occasions where a mechanic screws up a car royally.

Electricians? I've heard of plenty of fires that were started due to faulty electrical wiring. Matter of fact the apartment building right next to mine in our apartment complex just caught on fire this week....probable cause faulty electrical wiring.

So as I said every job has it's share of dummies who don't belong. Let's not judge everyone else in that career due to them.
 
I never understood why LEOs seem to think they are the ultimate resource when it comes to legal knowledge.
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I doubt that all do, but the ones who do are the first ones to run crying to mommy claiming that "there are too many laws for them to know". It doesn't work for anyone else, it shouldn't work for cops either.
 
I am a retired deputy sheriff from XXX county, I was a leo for 32 years, don't try to tell me the law.
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This, right here, is the number one thing that causes me not to like cops. I have a ton of respect for them being willing do do the job, I have a ton of respect for the training, the risk, and the thanklessness they get for little to no reward.

But police officers are in no way qualified to give legal advice, and so many of them think they are.

LEOs learn a narrow application of criminal law, with an emphasis on protecting themselves, protectign the public, and arresting suspects.

LEOs are trainned to be assertive, self-confident, and to take control of situations.

These two parts of their trainnign serve the very important task of keeping them alive... But they also tend to create the sort of personality that has difficulties being challenged. The cop thinks he knows the law, he is wrong, and he is called on it. He see's this as a challenge and gets pissy.

This is a sweeping generality, I realize, and I don't mean to imply that all cops are like this. But I do stand by my main point: police officers are not qualified to give legal advice.

Read the statute, read a case, consult a lawyer, or write a letter to your AG resquesting an opinion. Don't ask a cop.
 
A parallel example; If I were black and 1 in 10 cops called me "Boy" or worse I wouldn't trust any of them either.

No, its not fair to the 90% of good cops, but it does indeed explain why there is so much distrust (if not outright animus) for LEOs out here among the law abiding.

I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying it is.
 
I hate to be pedantic, but "negative reinforcement" actually refers to the process by which you give a subject a stimulus in order to remove a condition afflicting the subject that is uncomfortable (even painful) for the subject. For example: You have a headache, so you take an aspirin and the headache goes away.

Applying "a studied and implacable cruelty" to "[m]alicious arrogance" is actually a means of punishment, rather than negative reinforcement.

I really hope that former LEO runs headfirst into a wall of acumen and perspecuity. (They work well in tandem.)
 
Uhhh... black is positive and white is negative...
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Oh, you goofy AC guys and your "neutrals" and stuff.............

At least ya'll only have to remember four colors. We have to use schematics every time, since the automakers decided pink with green stripe or yellow with blue stripe or some other rainbow pattern is just as good as plain old red. At least 12v can't hurt us.

Of course, those pricks that designed hybrid vehicles decided that a mechanics job wasn't dangerous enough, so now we get to work with 660 volt 3-phase AC motors stuffed into transaxles..........:fire:

I guess it would be great if 10% of the vehicles would break down the second you drove em off the lot cause 10% of the mechanics didn't know *** they where doing
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You should wish it were only 10%....................

Back on topic, I've found the best way to deal with people like the ex-LEO in the OP is more or less what was done. Confront them about their inaccuracies, and if they insist they're right, just tell them to research it. I've found the offer to provide proof of their error is usually sufficient to shut them up. It appears that wasn't the case this time, but it usually works.
 
Wow where do I begin with this? What part of the law enforcement field do you work in? I'd venture to say none because it is VERY MUCH a police officer's job to know the law.
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Agreed, especially if you're going to arrest someone. I'm a CCW instructor and it amazes me at the general level of ignorance of state and federal firearms laws that some of my fellow officers show. This jerk, elitist attitude and all, should know that laws change. Sounds like he was a typical chief LEO in an area with a large population; he probably got his job through politics.

That still doesn't excuse his attitude. I get funny looks from a few of the guys in my department when they notice I'm carrying off duty. "Wow, you carry off duty?"

"Yes! You're required to! It's in the SOP!" Apparently even some cops are sheep. Somehow, that doesn't prevent them from rising to sheriff. :barf:
 
I'm still going to venture out and say the law books are too vast for any given human being to possibly know all of it and act appropriately in each unique situation. There are so many specialized lawyers and refer to libraries/databases dedicated to laws and court cases to help them make their case.

Add to the fact that police officers need to be proficient in firearms, basic hand-to-hand combat, high risk driving skills, protocols in how to conduct interviews, and the dozens of other skillsets that make someone a police officer, I highly doubt any given officer is an expert in law. The best you can honestly hope for is reasonable knowledge and proficiency in each category limited by human ability. There isn't a man (or woman) alive that is a master at all of those.
 
Here's the only law there should be:

Are you violating anyone else's rights? Your individual human neighbor's right to health, life, liberty, or property? No? You're free to go.

-Sans Authoritas
 
It is a police officers job to uphold the law, protect the peace, and arrest suspected lawbreakers.

It is not a police officers job to give legal opinions, nor are they qualified to do so.

The "unauthorized practice of law" (UPL) is prohibited in every state that I am aware of, either by statute, regulation, or court rule.

Probably the most common violators are accountants, paralegals, notaries public, and people who formerly worked for an attorney. Many times what seems to them to be "common knowledge" or "just helping out a friend" in fact crosses the line into practice of law. For instance, many accountants who represent small businesses will "fill out some forms" to create a corporation. They are drafting legal documents, which requires a law license.

I'm not aware of any case where a police officer was held to have engaged in UPL... But I've also never seen a cop get pulled over for speeding either. Still it happens.
 
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