Encouraging News from New York

[scubie02]

don't get me wrong, I am not happy with the way NY's laws work either, but I do think there are some misconceptions and its not as bad as several other states nearby. yes, I prefer VT or NH (used to live there for awhile) or PA. NY as with so many other things doesn't recognize anybody else's permit, so it doesn't get any reciprocal agreements because other states aren't likely to say "sure come on down" when yours isn't honored. I'd love to see that change. (I do have a PA permit as well, though, which also has reciprocity with a number of other states). I'd also like to see it mandated that a permit once obtained was also good in NYC, and I don't think anti-gun judges should be able to put restrictions on permits either. I do know that when they proposed putting new fees on permit holders and making them renewable every 5 years a year or so ago, it got put down hard, which was encouraging. It was interesting when reading about it in the paper they threw out some statistics and noted that just the city of Buffalo I believe it was had more permit holders than some whole states.

Anyway, all I'm saying is the fight isn't over in NY, at least not all of it. I'll bet I have written to my congressman more in one year than many of you have in your whole lives, and gun owners still have SOME clout here, and fight the good fight

 

[chopinbloc]

you don't need a permit to keep a handgun in your house or to carry one for that matter. you are a human being and as such, you have a right to procure whatever tools you deem necessary to defense of self and family. i have heard that there are totalitarian pockets bordering the u.s. that brutally opress free men and will imprison you for quite a while if you get caught exercising your rights. we are currently working on an underground railroad to spirit away the political refugees from such rogue nations as new yawk and California. i have petitioned the president to put them on axis of evil list but i have gotten no reply i can only assume there's alot of paperwork involved.

seriously, pop smoke and move back to the u.s.

 

[gunsmith]

ah scubie

I was about to mention that your permit probably wasn't good for nycity but you just said it yerself.
I am a native new yorker and miss the fireflies and beautifull upstate camping
having been in the scouts in the 1960's and 70's I did some great camping there and learned alot of edible plants and stuff,I really love NY & miss it alot but I love my freedom more.
I can walk out of the gunshop in under a half hour with just about any rifle I want (even a machine gun if I had the cash).
i allways have a gun or two in the car no problem with permits or anything.
no tolls on any roads
a reference to keep a gun in your own house!,that is worse then CA!
next you'll need a license to own a Bible or write a letter to a newspaper.

 

[scubie02]

well, I'm tied to ny because my parents are here and not getting any younger, and mom has had some health scares the past couple years and being here, I see them very often. When I lived in NH, even though it wasn't THAT far, I started to realize I was only seeing them a couple times in a year. Eventually, down the road it is quite possible I will move--if not for family, I probably already would have. But I will miss NY in many ways--I lived in several states and to me it really is beautiful--the leaves in the fall, the rolling hills, a very large variety of game species, and as far as natural disasters go, much better IMO than most parts of the country--we pretty much have to deal with large amounts of snow, and thats about it (which I personally don't mind--I'll take snow over heat anyday). In my lifetime I can remember exactly 2 tornados that went through this area. No hurricanes or earthquakes or mudslides or scorpions or mosquitoes the size of bats. Lots to recommend it. If we could just recapture the government from the commies and kill some of the taxes, it'd be right up there in desirable places to live in the US IMO. Our local reps are decent--they know which side of their bread is buttered and support sportsmen and gun owners. Its just the bigshots like Hillary and Schumer and our governors that suck--alas NYC has too much power for us to overcome. Some day maybe...

Oh, and you don't need a permit to own a long gun, just handguns--I sort of get the impression some think thats the case. Actually if you have a pistol permit, you don't even have to go through the background (NICS) check for a long gun--you are exempted and walk out as quickly as you can fill out the paperwork. No so many day waiting period that some places have.

 

[Vermont Guy]

I wouldn't be encouraged, but rather extremely distraught.

It wasn't the need to apply for a permit to keep a pistol in my home that was encouraging--it was the three guys who without any second though agreed to vouch for me.

As long as there are such people, hope remains.

If you don't stay and fight for what is right

Bless you for the thought. But I'm not fighting now. We're just following the rules to see where they lead.

ARE YOU NUTS

Good question, TimH. Stay tuned.

And yeah, there was a woman. Her job opportunities are rather limited.

In Vermont, if I'm not mistaken, as long as you're a resident, you just go & buy a handgun Thats it.

Vermont is even better then that with regard to carrying. No need to be a resident. Just step across the state line. Been there, done that.

 

[Vermont Guy]

A word about signs

My county just posted a sign forbidding "weapons" in their buildings. Yes the sign probably encroach on the authority of the state assembly but there have been no signs of outrage either. It was one reason I was concerned about the reception my request for signatures would receive.

Several counties got all excited awhile back when that prisoner stole his guard's gun and shot several people.

I went to a meeting of the county council and spoke against adopting this policy. I was rather surprised they were even considering it because for a civilian to carry a gun would require the approval of a local county judge. It looked like the council members didn't trust their judge.

It became apparent during the discussion that these people weren't worried about pistols at all. That base is covered in New York. They actually mentioned baseball bats and knitting needles! You can imagine the carnage knitting needles could create.

Poke. Ouch. Poke. Ouch....

Their new office building will also have metal detectors and sheriff deputies to search people entering.

 

[Vermont Guy]

Go ahead and ask 'em

I live in Columbia County and most of my friends are leftists I have a snowballs chance in of getting a pistol permit

TimH, Columbia is listed at packing.org as being "Almost Shall Issue". Go ahead and ask your leftist friends for a reference. The forms states that they should be "character references who by their signature attest to your good moral character". Nothing about guns. Nothing about guns being good or you being fit to have or operate a gun. Just, are you a good person?

I did this back when I lived in St. Louis, Missouri. At the time the sheriff required two letters of reference for what they call the "Permit to Acquire". So I asked a woman I'd been friends with for years for a letter of reference. She was just an urban girl who hadn't grown up with guns and believed what they told her. When I told her why I needed the letter she said she hated that. But....as far as my character was concerned she had no complaints. She wrote that I was "an asset to the community".

Your friends might suprise you. Make 'em think.

 

[Vermont Guy]

My Bad

I got the signatures tonight.

But as I examine the details I find that one of them lives in Broome county. That isn't going to work. All four have to live in Tioga county.

Even I know other people in New York. However many of them live in neighboring counties.

Back to the salt mines. Gotta hurry and scrape up another name, the four photos I had made today expire in 30 days.

 

[scubie02]

i wasn't talking about court houses and such banning guns--they are allowed to do that so far as I know. I was more thinking of all the threads I see where supermarket or convenience store chains ban them.

 

[grampster]

"The Founding Fathers would weep." And then gather up the militia and march on the county building, grab the pharisees, tar and feather them and ride them out of town on a rail.

 

[TonyB]

It could be worse

He could live in Mass. or DC.......of course I live in NY and have an unrestricted permit.....it can be done......although if I have to ,I'll move to Vermont

 

[toivo]

I live in NY. With gun laws, as with so many other things, we like to say...

"At least I don't live in New Jersey!"

(Apologies to Jersey folks.)

 

[Prince Yamato]

Having lived in both NY and Texas, let me clarify... there are NO NY gun laws that are better than those in Texas. Zero Zip Nada. Now, Upstate isn't as bad as many think. You can still get preban assault weapons and mags, but damn, that whole pistol registration thing stinks of communism.

 

[Autolycus]

Originally Posted by EghtySx:
As far as Texas CCW laws are concerned there is a reason for them. It has to do with our proximity to an unprotected national border and the problems associated with it.

What about Alaska? They have a similar border length like Texas.

The border you are talking about, is it similar to the one that New York shares with Canada? Sorry I cant by that logic. By this reason then a few other states would have worse laws then Texas due to the border issue.

Some of the Texas laws are pretty crappy. NY has a better place of where you can carry however getting the permit is the problem.

Remember all of you guys are lucky simply that you can carry. I live in IL and CCW is a dream.

 

[wuchak]

I went through the process and got my NY permit when I was living there in Fulton County. It took about 4 months due to the required training class being delayed. My friend submitted his a couple of weeks before me and was able to get into a training class held during that time. It took less than 2 months for him to get his permit from time he started the process.

There is no requirement for how long you have known your references. The only restrictions on who can be a reference are they must not be judges, town or city justices, police officers, correction officers, persons to whom the applicant is related or any persons in the same household.

The people who will be references have to sign all three copies of your application. Once you submit your application the Sheriff dept will send a letter to them with some questions on it asking about you including length of time known, if they've ever known you to be violent, etc. Getting the letters returned is one thing that can really delay the process. Until all the reference letters are mailed back your permit will not move forward so you need to keep on the people to get them mailed back as quickly as possible.

Once the application is submitted the Sheriff’s office will schedule you in the next mandatory training session they are holding. In my county they only did this once a month. When I applied for mine I missed that month's training by a couple of days, the following month they canceled the class because the only instructor was sick, the month after that they canceled it because it was December and the instructor was on Christmas vacation. This was the only cause of delay in the entire process for me.

If you are a member of a gun club when you submit your application it looks good. It makes the issuing judge feel better about you having a safe place to practice and reinforces the claim that one of the reasons you want a handgun is for target shooting. If your references are members of the club that looks good also. It means that the people serving as a reference are comfortable with you handling firearms around them so they are confident you are a responsible individual.

The other part of the process that can cause a delay is the one-on-one meeting with the issuing judge. As you can imagine their calendars are usually packed and they only set aside certain times each month to meet with applicants.

In my county all the permits, unless you had a reason e.g. carried large amounts of cash or other valuables for work, were issued with restrictions for hunting (which included hiking and camping) and target shooting. Once you had your permit for a year and shown that you were responsible you could meet with the Judge and ask to have the restrictions removed. Everyone I know who went back and met with them had the restrictions lifted without any difficulty.

A note on the restrictions. Because NY is a may-issue state the courts have ruled that the issuing Judge has the authority to place restrictions on the time and place of carry since by issuing you the permit they are responsible for you. If you commit a crime with your handgun they will have to answer as to why the issued you the permit. The restrictions are only enforced by the issuing Judge as part of an agreement with the permit holder. If you violate the restrictions and the Judge finds out they can revoke your permit if they choose. You will get the opportunity to sit with the Judge and discuss this before they revoke it. However violation of the restrictions is not a crime, all you can do is lose your permit. If you are carrying and get stopped by the police anywhere outside of NYC all they care about is if you have a permit. Of course if they see restrictions listed on it you can be almost certain that word will get back to the Judge and you will be called in to meet with him/her.

All the serial numbers of your handguns will be typed on your permit. Every time you buy a new one you have to take a form into the Sheriff’s department to have it added to your permit before you can take possession of it. This usually takes about 15 minutes. If you sell one you have to go and get it removed. You can share handguns and have them listed on your permit and someone else’s. Normally they only do this for members of the same family that will be sharing but if there is a good reason they will do it for friends. Possessing a handgun that is not listed on your permit is the same as not having a permit and is a sure way to lose your permit for good and get arrested as well.

 

[ctdonath]

NY's gun laws suck, although once you actually manage to get a permit (and stay the heck out of that third-world country called New York City), it's pretty good as far as permits go: schools, gov't buildings, train stations & airports aside, you can carry anywhere. This in contrast with "gun-friendly" states like Georgia where you can't carry in alcohol-serving restraunts or at "public gatherings" (very loosely defined) etc., laws which strictly speaking disarm you for an entire trip (no leaving gun in car).

Kinda perverse.
NY: hard, if possible at all, to get guns - but you can carry 'em almost anywhere anytime.
GA: trivial to get any kind of gun - but you can't carry 'em half the time or to many common places.

 

[GnL]

There is no requirement for how long you have known your references. The only restrictions on who can be a reference are they must not be judges, town or city justices, police officers, correction officers, persons to whom the applicant is related or any persons in the same household.

This might be county specific.

In Monroe County (Rochester area) the instructions for the application state:
"You must provide 4 character references that must be Monroe County residents that have known you for at least 3 years. These references may not be law enforcement, family members or anyone who may be included as a member of your household."

If you have lived in Monroe County less than 3 years, there is a provision for obtaining additional references from the state or county where you previously resided (with notarizations). Basically a huge PITA.

This provision is what keeps me from obtaining my permit. I have only lived here for 3 years, and I don't know many people in my county (I worked in a neighboring county). I am not sure I want to ask my neighbors for the reference because they don't know I have guns (and I'd like it to stay that way).

 

[wuchak]

Thanks for the correction. I wasn't aware that the counties had the ability to change the provision for length of time know.

 

[gezzer]

Move your parents.