Europe’s Leading Rabbi: Jews Must Begin Carrying Guns

[ConstitutionCowboy]

With an armed populace, the need for a cop on every street corner diminishes, and the state loses power. I find it odd that in these "Power to the People" countries, the people never seem to amass any power. I believe that power to the people can only be achieved in a constitutional republic. Power to the people can only be preserved in a constitutional republic. Remember that every time those in government start restricting your right to arms. It means you're about to become something other than free.

Woody

How many times must people get bit in the (insert appropriate anatomical region) before they figure out that infringing upon rights sets the stage for the detrimental acts those rights were there to deter? B.E.Wood

You can live free holding the stock and possibly never have to pull the trigger, or you can try to live free at the muzzle. I prefer to hold the stock and live free. Those at the muzzle never seem to fare quite so well. B.E.Wood

 

[Snejdarek]

This whole argument is based on absolute lack of understanding of the European Union firearm rules. The EU does not prevent access to firearms nor the possibility of concealed of open carry. Czech Republic and Estonia have laws that are 100% in line with all the applicable EU rules and have easy access to firearms and easy access to CC license. Jew or non-jew in Prague can quite easily get a license and carry two concealed firearms into synagogue legally. S(h)e may even elect take his semi-auto SBR into a back-pack, as long as (s)he can effectively conceal it.

The local politicians in Europe have been using EU as a scapegoat for years. Anytime they want to push something unpopular, they blame the Brussels and people fall for it, notwithstanding whether the issue concerns color of carrots or concealed carry. EU has never forbidden access to firearms for self defense nor CC, so obviously it can't abolish a ban that was never in place.

The European Firearms Directive introduces a minimum standard that the states need to meet. The basic idea behind it is that when the EU countries agreed to abolish internal borders, there were fears that people from countries with more stringent gun control could go and buy firearms in countries with liberal gun laws (much like in US today). Therefore the Directive requires a system of licensing and registration. So unlike in US, a person can't just jump the border and legally buy a firearm.

Most European states have stricter gun control than the EU directive requires. If people in these countries want legal access to guns, they need to change their national laws. Or they can move to the Czech Republic/Estonia, get a permanent residency, get a license, and buy and carry whatever they want - after all, moving to another Member State is one of their rights guaranteed by the EU.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Yes, but he can't speak for EVERYBODY. He is the head of his organization, which has the goal to support the needs of a specific group of people.

Why not? I can do it. Watch this: I believe EVERYONE who can vote should be able to carry a firearm, concealed or not.

 

[wojownik]

Why not? I can do it. Watch this: I believe EVERYONE who can vote should be able to carry a firearm, concealed or not.

And which organization are you representing while making that statement? The point being that the Rabbi was speaking from the vantage point of the particular organization he leads. He's not saying others should not have better access to firearms for self defense as well ...

 

[MagnunJoe]

Europeans CC? never going to happen. European governments see their citizens as tax paying pesants with no voice or rights.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

And which organization are you representing while making that statement? The point being that the Rabbi was speaking from the vantage point of the particular organization he leads. He's not saying others should not have better access to firearms for self defense as well ...

The NRA, the Republican Party of Arkansas and the Military Order of the Purple Heart.

 

[Snejdarek]

Europeans CC? never going to happen. European governments see their citizens as tax paying pesants with no voice or rights.

CC is shall issue in the Czech Republic and Estonia and permissive may issue in Slovakia and Austria.

It may happen, but the electorate must ask for it the way Czechs and Estonians did in 1990s. I don't see that happening in France in any near future.

 

[Elkins45]

The NRA, the Republican Party of Arkansas and the Military Order of the Purple Heart.

There's a difference between being a member of something and representing it? Did these organizations expressly authorize you to speak on their behalf?

Oh, and about the thread title: how was it determined this fellow was Europe's leading Rabbi?

 

[Elkins45]

This whole argument is based on absolute lack of understanding of the European Union firearm rules. The EU does not prevent access to firearms nor the possibility of concealed of open carry. Czech Republic and Estonia have laws that are 100% in line with all the applicable EU rules and have easy access to firearms and easy access to CC license. Jew or non-jew in Prague can quite easily get a license and carry two concealed firearms into synagogue legally. S(h)e may even elect take his semi-auto SBR into a back-pack, as long as (s)he can effectively conceal it.

The local politicians in Europe have been using EU as a scapegoat for years. Anytime they want to push something unpopular, they blame the Brussels and people fall for it, notwithstanding whether the issue concerns color of carrots or concealed carry. EU has never forbidden access to firearms for self defense nor CC, so obviously it can't abolish a ban that was never in place.

The European Firearms Directive introduces a minimum standard that the states need to meet. The basic idea behind it is that when the EU countries agreed to abolish internal borders, there were fears that people from countries with more stringent gun control could go and buy firearms in countries with liberal gun laws (much like in US today). Therefore the Directive requires a system of licensing and registration. So unlike in US, a person can't just jump the border and legally buy a firearm.

Most European states have stricter gun control than the EU directive requires. If people in these countries want legal access to guns, they need to change their national laws. Or they can move to the Czech Republic/Estonia, get a permanent residency, get a license, and buy and carry whatever they want - after all, moving to another Member State is one of their rights guaranteed by the EU.

Thank you for this very informative post. I learned a great deal from it.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

There's a difference between being a member of something and representing it? Did these organizations expressly authorize you to speak on their behalf?

Give it a rest. This sophistry -- pretending the leader of an organization cannot speak for the general good -- is getting tiresome.

 

[19-3Ben]

Give it a rest. This sophistry -- pretending the leader of an organization cannot speak for the general good -- is getting tiresome.

The only reason it's tiresome for you is because you're not understanding it from the point of the leader, rather than a member.

If Wayne LaPierre started making public announcements generally about people's rights about social/liberty issues apart from guns, we'd all be up in arms and calling for his removal. Imagine if he used his pulpit of the NRA to start raising issues about working conditions for union members, or taxation issues, or anything other than gun rights.

He is the head rabbi for European Jews. That means, that is the demographic he is appointed to represent and for which he advocates. He would not have any voice to advocate for Jews outside of Europe, and he would not have any voice to advocate for non-Jews within Europe.

He is simply sticking within the narrow scope of his role. I can completely respect that.

 

[scaatylobo]

this Jew =

As a Jew I was ALWAYS shocked that all Jew's did not own and TRAIN with a firearm from birth.

I was shown ALL the pictures from the "camps" and all I could ask was "WHY DIDNT THEY FIGHT BACK".

It was a cause for a feeling of guilt for those sheep that went to slaughter without a fight.

Even unarmed they stood a good chance of overwhelming those with gun's,but they went meekly to terrible deaths.

It is THE most asked question of me [ I was an LEO and a very active shooter ],from all who found out I was a Jew.

I was also taught the expression "NEVER AGAIN" and I guess it meant something VERY different to me.

I would love to see [ but have NO expectation ] those deprived of their ability and BIRTHRIGHT to defend themselves = get that BIRTHRIGHT back.

Just a point of view from the other side.

If your interested,look up the organization J.P.F.O. [ Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership ]

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Absolutely.

At the Virginia Tech shooting, one professor tried to block the door and was killed attempting to save his students. He was a survivor of the Holocaust.

I honor his heroism, but I cannot understand how anyone who survived the Holocaust could EVER allow himself to be unarmed.

 

[Sol]

Absolutely.

At the Virginia Tech shooting, one professor tried to block the door and was killed attempting to save his students. He was a survivor of the Holocaust.

I honor his heroism, but I cannot understand how anyone who survived the Holocaust could EVER allow himself to be unarmed.

Wouldn't want to break any laws would you citizen?

 

[Mitlov]

Give it a rest. This sophistry -- pretending the leader of an organization cannot speak for the general good -- is getting tiresome.

Well, he could have, but he didn't, and maybe he should have expressly spoken about the rights of all citizens. But can you at least understand that when he talks about Jews needing guns, he's just talking about a right that he wants to be available to Jews (and anyone else too, but he sees his role as advocating for that community specifically) instead of saying "Jews should get guns but nobody else should"? Because I'm pretty certain that latter sentiment was not what he was getting at, but some people are reading his comments that way.

 

[Sol]

Well this rabbi seems to have it all figured out.

I hope this gets legs.

The only question this article leaves out is, how does one prove they are jewish?
I mean let's say special rights are given to them, is there a test to determine if you're a jew or just a regular European?

I could see a huge surge in the jewish population if this pans out.

 

[Snejdarek]

Well, he could have, but he didn't, and maybe he should have expressly spoken about the rights of all citizens. But can you at least understand that when he talks about Jews needing guns, he's just talking about a right that he wants to be available to Jews (and anyone else too, but he sees his role as advocating for that community specifically) instead of saying "Jews should get guns but nobody else should"? Because I'm pretty certain that latter sentiment was not what he was getting at, but some people are reading his comments that way.

Well, I'd say he really doesn't. He basically says let us have armed Jewish guardsmen. He kind of acknowledges that the country's police force is completely helpless when it comes to protecting 600.000 strong Jewish community. However, he doesn't see empowerment of every single Jew as the answer. His answer is somewhere along the lines of armed private Jewish security/auxiliary Jewish police force. Substituting the big government by a small one.

I believe that not only the thought of universal access to firearms for self-defense did not cross the man's mind, but neither did access for all Jews.

I wonder how armed are Jews in the Czech Republic (compared to general population) and how common is CC among the tiny Czech Jewish community... in the least antisemitic country in EU.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Well, he could have, but he didn't, and maybe he should have expressly spoken about the rights of all citizens.

Especially since that would accomplish two things:

1. If would bring gentiles into the equation and increase the impact of his argument, and

2. Allowing ALL honest citizens to carry arms gives everyone more protection -- even those who don't carry.

 

[P5 Guy]

Jews in Israel

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...stricter-than-some-u-s-gun-advocates-suggest/

The United States stands truly alone in the developed world for its lax gun laws, which have contributed to Americans owning guns at a far higher rate than anyone else. The National Rifle Association, in its pushback against calls for gun restrictions after the Sandy Hook Elementary mass shooting, has portrayed things somewhat differently. NRA chief Wayne LaPierre has drawn comparisons to Israel, saying that the U.S. should follow Israel's example of loose gun laws and of responding to mass shooting by posting armed guards at schools.

Seems to the good Rabbi should start demanding change in Israel first? :banghead:

...Israel actually has quite strong gun restrictions and very low gun ownership rates, some of the lowest in the developed world. This confusion has gotten so bad that even Israeli government officials are now chiming in to knock back the claims...

 

[Ulfberht]

It'll never happen.

 

[Mitlov]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...stricter-than-some-u-s-gun-advocates-suggest/

The United States stands truly alone in the developed world for its lax gun laws, which have contributed to Americans owning guns at a far higher rate than anyone else. The National Rifle Association, in its pushback against calls for gun restrictions after the Sandy Hook Elementary mass shooting, has portrayed things somewhat differently. NRA chief Wayne LaPierre has drawn comparisons to Israel, saying that the U.S. should follow Israel's example of loose gun laws and of responding to mass shooting by posting armed guards at schools.

Seems to the good Rabbi should start demanding change in Israel first? :banghead:

...Israel actually has quite strong gun restrictions and very low gun ownership rates, some of the lowest in the developed world. This confusion has gotten so bad that even Israeli government officials are now chiming in to knock back the claims...

Why would he? He's French, not Israeli, and the fact that he's Jewish doesn't change that. Of course he's going to focus on the laws of the country where he's a citizen and where he lives.

I'm a Jew living in Oregon. I'm an American and an Oregonian, not an Israeli. The same is true with him and being French.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Exactly right. Freedom transcends all faiths, ethnic origins and so on. Let us work for freedom in the United States, and let the Rabbi work for freedom in France.

 

[Ignition Override]

scatylobo: Maybe some of the horrendous SS massacre at Babi Yar in Ukraine could have been prevented, if a local armed militia had existed.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

scatylobo: Maybe some of the horrendous SS massacre at Babi Yar in Ukraine could have been prevented, if a local armed militia had existed.

I once had an anti-gun type tell me, "Don't be ridiculous! If the Jews had resisted the Nazis, they'd have been killed."

I let him think for a moment about what he'd said, then said, "So it's your theory that by meekly submitting, they all survived?"

 

[58limited]

Vern, What was his reply?