Ever been in .... "Gunsmith Hell?"

[Topgun]

I too, do most of my own gunsmithing. But this one needed a new part. I thought. (It didn't....but that's the "rest" of the story)
A gunsmith (as any other business) should know within a relatively close window of time how long it will take him to repair or get a part and assemble it to work.
He should have some idea how many scopes he will sell (and have to collimate) every week and should know his "busy" times (hunting season, etc.) If he DOESN'T have any recollection of when he is busy from years of being in business, he should not BE in that business.
A lot of gunsmiths are prima donnas and spend waaaaaayyyy too much time arguing politics and getting sidetracked at their shops. The WORST ones are the retired military guys who only have a shop to avoid the wife and mess with guns. And don't NEED any income.
If it should take a week and they told the customer it would be THREE weeks, then everything is hunky-dory.
But a constant putting off of any customer in any business is not right.
I didn't ask for a RUSH job. But the gun is a simple one and the repair is fairly forthright and AFTER I get it back I can go into specifics that explain WHY this particular instance is so damned exasperating.

The "reasons" defy belief.

Gunsmiths are few and far between and most are getting older. But if they say a year and take a year, no one is miffed.

Just keep your word. Make SURE you CAN keep your word. Honesty is the best policy and ANYONE who takes money for repeated LIES is dishonest.

 

[Topgun]

And I don't buy the "priority" of hunting guns or LEO guns. They too should have more than one gun.

Priority should go to the first gun in unless it needs hard-to-get parts and then the customer should be advised.

 

[ACORN]

Two stories about the same smith.

I took a Model 12 Win. to have a new butt stock fitted, have the forend and butt stock finished to match the color, have the barrel cut down to 26" and choked Imp Cyl and blued. Waited two weeks after the original "finish" date to see how the work was going. I was told he had just got the second coat of oil on it and it should be ready next week. I called two weeks later, and was told that the butt stock had just came in the day before and he was going to put the first coat of oil on it that day. ???????????? Now I could understand if it was a big shop with many employees there could be mis-communication, but this was a one man shop. No real big deal, kind of funny. In the mans defense, when I got the gun back it was beautiful.

I took my Ruger 77 to have the stock re-shaped recheckered, rust blued, skeletonized pistol grip cap installed. I was in no hurry, I figured a few months. No problem. Two years later I go into the shop and the smith and his newly hired assistant are both busy working on building a pair of .300 Mags. Now I know that there are a few "wealthy" customers that go to this shop so I asked who were they building the rifles for. The smith replies that they were just building them to put on the rack to see what kind of interest they would draw. I was livid. My rifle sitting gathering dust for two years and they're building rifles for their inventory! I waited a week and told him I was going to take my Ruger for the upcoming deer season. The guy had the b@11s to tell me to bring it back as soon as I was done with it because I was next in line. I took my rifle and never went back.
It's a shame because the guy has real talent.

 

[bratch]

Makes me like my 1911 guy even more. Dropped it off around 10 in the morning for some reliability work and picked it up at 3 that afternoon.

 

[simmonsguns]

after being here for 60 years,we have a colection of signs about 24 hour rush servace,lead times for each gunsmith and on the ticket it's printed "each day past 1 week from time of compleation call there will be a charge of $2.00 a day untill firearm is picked up"if i enforced this i could retire.hunting guns get priority servace during hunting season if the owner has no other firearm,yea people don't lie.LEO's get quicker servace because they,1 don't have time or can't leave the firearm or 2,they have saved my big butt several times in my life and this is my way of letting them know that it matters.as long as you do the best to stick to a stated time frame,it's not that hard to keep jobs moving if you have a system and more than one person in the shop.we have four gunsmiths and a shipper,and the owner,he is there mostly to irratate everyone on earth,for those that have met him you know what i mean.we are down one smith,he army guard and is not in country anymore,now we 4 are doing the work of 5.it was already tight,now it's just painfull.10 hour days,6 days a week,and this is our slow time.from time to time a job gets to old,it's how you deal with the customer that counts,i will call and let them know what is going on,that helps,when it's finished i discount what i can,when the customer sees that,it has to help with the feeling's.i have comped complete jobs when someone else screws up and does not even bother to call the customer to let them know it will take longer because my smith had his head up there butt.luckly thoes smiths don't last long here.any new smith just does not get to start building guns,there is scud work.the thing that i don't understand is,if there is no gunsmith or no good gunsmith in your area,why don't you try to find one on this board,the internet has opened up the world for people to find what they need,why are gunsmiths different.95% of our work is shipped in,we have dealers all over the country and some alittle farther out.the only customers that i will try to work in or work late for are local,there are not alot of other smiths here worth a lot.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I've had pretty good luck thus far. But I have a custom Colt that needs a look-see by the guy that built it. That may take a while.

 

[Werewolf]

the thing that i don't understand is,if there is no gunsmith or no good gunsmith in your area,why don't you try to find one on this board,the internet has opened up the world for people to find what they need,why are gunsmiths different.

I cannot speak for others but for me the problem is twofold.

1. Shipping a gun is a hassle - a big hassle and one I am not willing to endure unless it is 100% necessary.

2. Loss of Control - shipping a gun out of state means you lose control of it - period. Legal remedies across states are difficult and expensive (often more so than the value of the piece). I've had this problem with an out of state service before - I will not again.

 

[Treylis]

Oh well...he is the best in AZ, so...I will keep waiting.

Name names?

 

[HankB]

I've found that many common gunsmithing tasks can be done at home - I've successfully tackled glass bedding and re-stocking a couple of rifles, have installed a Jewel AR15 trigger and a Volquartsen 10/22 trigger, diagnosed and fixed a slide-lock problem in a BHP, fitted "pre-fit" grips that didn't fit, removed a BHP magazine disconnect, filed a front sight to adjust point of impact on a 1911, filed in a rear express sight on a rifle to do the same, etc. And of course, I periodically detail strip and clean all my guns. (Why someone would need a gunsmith simply to CLEAN a gun they owned . . . )

These are all pretty trivial gunsmithing tasks . . . but I've sent guns off to prominent 'smiths who promise some reasonable delivery time, but are off by factors of 3 or 4. This burns me up - if something is going to take 6 months or a year, JUST SAY SO! Don't lie and give me some song and dance about it taking 4 to 6 weeks.

And if I'm paying $$$ for some BNP (Big Name Pistolsmith) to do the work don't hand it off to some flunky who will screw it up so badly it will have to go back to the factory for repair. (This happened to me.)

 

[roo_ster]

It is a matter of expectations.

Tell me that it'll take a month and call me in three weeks saying, "It's finished. Come on by to pick up O'l Betsy" and I'll think the 'smith is pretty quick & squared away.

Tell me it'll be done in two weeks, take your sweet time about it and get it out in a month...I'll be less impressed.

I recall an old engineer who was running a project. He asked me when I could complete my part. I told him two weeks. His response was, "Two weeks, four weeks, I don't care (within reason) when you complete it. I just want you to be d@mn well sure that it is complete by the day you tell me."

If the project is one that has a whole lot of time risk, be up front & say you'll do your best, but parts for the weapon are rare as hen's teeth and any estimate is highly questionable.

OTOH, yep, some customers can be real knuckleheads and use the 'smith as "off-site" storage or have unreasonable expectations. Welcome to retail.

 

[hso]

Ohhhhhhhh yes!

 

[Wakal]

I've fixed a customer's gun in front of him, and been accused of cheating him when I charged him for the part only (no labor).

I've had customers force money on me, when I discover that the "completely nonfunctional" gun just needed to be cleaned (and only charged a half hour of my bench fee).

And while I haven't had it happen to me yet, my crazy old man (who does not live in a hole in the backyard...yet...) has had the same rifle sitting in the "ready to be picked up" rack for just over twenty years. He calls the guy every few months and chats. Nice.

Two sides




Alex

 

[simmonsguns]

when i got my first gun,i took it apart to see how it worked,it took me some time before i got it back together and it worked.most of the guns in for cleaning are from here,i don't know why a person can't clean there own gun,most likely they don't want to get dirty.i have had problems with shipping guns before i worked here,aside from the shippers not knowing what they are doing,you have to deal with the customers that don't ship correctly,i have had barrels sticking out of boxes,half opened boxes (not enough tape) and gun cases shipped in with out locks or tape,just the latches of the gun case holding it all together.i have learned that if you want a pistol shipped,take it to the shipping hub,don't bother with an outlet store,but we work with dealers,they ship from a gun shop or sporting goods store to us,there pick up guys know what they are shipping and are used to it,the one thing that gets on the owners nerves is when a gun comes in for work from one of our dealers and the owner of the gun calls to check on it,the gun is under the dealers name,that takes time to sort out.

 

[John Ross]

Fred Wells was at the Safari Club show with some beautiful oversize Mauser-pattern custom actions with integral sidemounts in 1983. Fred had a rep for fantastic machine work and slowness. I told him I'd order an action if I didn't have to put down more than 10% up front. He took my cash.

I got to where I was afraid Fred was going to die before I got my action.

I received it, in the white, in 2001. The rifle is now almost done, a de-rimmed and improved .600 Nitro with integral quarter rib and beautiful bastogne stock.

But the best case I've ever heard happened in 1980 in London. At John Wilkes' shop, a relatively young man came in one day. His grandfather, an avid shooter and hunter, had died recently and left his guns to the grandson, who was also a shooter. The two had been close and the grandson was familiar with all the old gent's guns.

In gathering the man's effects, he had come across a claim check from Wilkes' shop for a .375 that he had never seen or heard of. He gave the check to Wilkes and asked about it. Wilkes replied that it was an old tag they had used for people who dropped off guns for repair, and they took it back when the gun was picked up. Wilkes scowled and said something like "I'll be right back." He got an associate and the two men disappeared for almost a half hour.

He came back all businesslike. "We found your grandfather's gun. It'll be ready next week."

The young man seemed puzzled that he had never seen this gun, or heard about it.

"Your grandfather dropped it off here some time ago, and I guess we both forgot it was here."

"How long ago?" There was a long pause before Wilkes answered.

"1937."

JR

 

[BluesBear]

I am sure that simmonsguns has some valid insight from the other side of the counter but there are reasons that great novels are written with paragraphs.

I just refuse to read a novel written in one sentence.

But... to each his own.

 

[feedthehogs]

Two suggestions.

One, learn to do most repairs. Its not that hard and requires only basic tools. Exploded views are available for most guns.
Most everything short of machining is not hard at all.
I don't understand the people that take a gun to a shop to have it cleaned.

Second, as I did, look around and find a local machinist who is either retired, or small in size to do any machine work.
I looked and asked around a few years back and found a couple of Swed brothers who ran a small machine shop out of a rented garage.

I gave them a general machine task to do to check the work and costs.
To my surprise they were really cheap, cash only, and the work was exceptional.

Small shops get backed up and when the owner gets sick, wife wants him to do something or he just doesn't feel like workin that day or week, things grind to a halt. More projects are accepted though because its a way of guaranteeing future income.

Large shops always cater to their better and more frequent customers. The guy who takes his gun in to do a 50.00 job one time is going to wait for the regulars that come in after him.

The repair industry in general has the same problem.

 

[kaferhaus]

Yeah there's two sides to every coin, but I handle it this way.

I ask the customer when he "needs" the gun back, then depending on what he want's done, I either take the job or refuse it based upon his time frame for completion.

Most of my customers respond " I need it back when you get it finished with it"

Repair work is generally not very time consuming unless it's an antique with limited/no parts availability. These jobs though, are usually gonna cost the owner more than the gun is worth to begin with and once they learn this they take the gun on home as a wall hanger. The guns that are worth properly making parts for, I always tell the customer it's gonna take twice as long as I think it will... expectations.....

Re-finishing work is where you can run into problems.... most of this work I turn away/lose because my prices are too high... which is good for me... to do a first class job on a nice piece of wood can take 15-20 hours for a hand applied finish.. not many people can afford that.

But I won't do it for less as I can make more money in that same time doing repairs or custom work.

RUSH jobs are done after regular hours at 3x my normal labor rate. I do not "bump" anyone, I do not stop what I'm doing to fix something for a friend... if he was a "friend" he wouldn't ask me to do that.....

 

[simmonsguns]

i can't get this thing to do paragraphs.thoes $50.00 jobs are just as important as the $500.00 ones.ever sence the other 2 guns shops out here closed we have been picking up the work they did and than some,not every one needs major work or wants something custom,it's good to beable to help out who ever needs something as small as a screw for whatever or just want to find out why it won't work.servace is servace,it's been that way for ever.

 

[OH25shooter]

Thanks for posting this question. I just spend an hour researching pistolsmiths (many out of state). I think I just made up my mind. I'm keeping what I have and I'm not surrending it for 6 months or two years.

 

[Rabid Rabbit]

Never had a bad time with a GS. Guess I'm lucky. The last time I sent a 1911 slide to have new sights installed it was taking a couple weeks longer than I was told. GS sent it back perfect sight install, lowered and ported ejection port, milled and slotted the top of the slide, milled slots on the front, re-parkerized. I thought he sent the wrong slide back.

 

[oneshooter]

Worked in a small muzzle loading shop for several years. People would bring in their percussion revolvers in paper bags! There was a standing charge of $25 to reassemble it, AND they could WATCH and LEARN. Payment was in advance, as many thought the fee was way too high. Simply dissasembled the revolver and put it back in the sack. Most came back, somewhat sheepish and red faced to pay $25 to have it put back together. Shop got $10 and I kept the rest.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[Old Fuff]

oneshooter:

Ya' a man after my own heart. Folks that don't know how to put something back together have no business taking it apart.

 

[TechBrute]

Good at gunsmithing, bad at business. This describes most of the good gunsmiths I've known. This is why I have a recent infatuation with ARs. I can pretty much do all the work myself.

 

[wingman]

Good gun shops like good women are the same if you find one hang on to it.
I've been married 40 years but havent found a decent gunshop yet but I
am still looking.

 

[WhiteKnight]

The only work I've had done was fantastic. I got the gunsmith linked off of the Shooter's Oasis do some barrel and trigger work for me. He got it done in less than two weeks IIRC, and the prices were amazingly low.