Excessive caution at the range?

[parsimonious_instead]

True safety is driven by habits. Repeatable habits. Obsessive habits.
Make safety a habit no matter how silly or ridiculous it may appear or others may feel it is.

And that's what drove my original post. I had a feeling that with an open chamber and no evidence of anything in there, there was almost certainly no chance of something discharging and leaving me minus an eye about about 100 IQ points.

However, I didn't want that to be the *beginning* of an unsafe habit of "looking down the barrel when there's a problem."

I detected a bit of "mocking of overcaution" in a reply or two, but hey - it's my life and my health we're talking about. And a few seconds or even a minute of extra time and care to negate the chance a self-inflicted tragedy? Hey, why not?

Don't statisticians have a term - "low probability, high-consequence?"

 

[Inebriated]

Nothing is going to happen between the time it takes to check the chamber and then take a peek down the barrel. I do get why some just don't want to mess with bad habits like that, though.

 

[AK103K]

However, I didn't want that to be the *beginning* of an unsafe habit of "looking down the barrel when there's a problem."

The problem was past, and you had already confirmed it. Anything beyond that seems to lean towards OCD to me. What next, fear of looking down the bore of any gun what might have been loaded at some point?

 

[Fishslayer]

If I can poke my bore light into the breech end it's probably safe to look in the muzzle...

 

[Fremmer]

How can a sqib load spontaneously re-ignite?

 

[bushmaster1313]

will your pinky fit in the chamber so you can feel if there is a round in there?

 

[superscribe]

Goodness

I think some of the responses here are overboard, and just generally misleading. Like the habits one.

Repeatable habits. Obsessive habits. What was that supposed to mean? I thought it was an endorsement for never ever ever looking down a barrel. That is silly to me. That is dogmatic, and can actually bad choices.

You know what a repeatable habit is? Make safe your gun before you futz around with it. Make that an obsessive habit. That is a good habit. That has nothing to do with a fear of looking down a barrel. Those are two different things.

Sometimes it is okay to look down the barrel. Sometimes it is not. Obviously, if one does not feel comfortable making such differentiation, its better to be safe then sorry. However, I would like out there are harder choices gun owners have to make: Sometimes it is safe to pull the trigger. Sometimes it is not.

Another sign of professionalism is knowing what matters to safety, and knowing what doesn't.

 

[Serenity]

My son asked if it was okay to look "up" the barrel to inspect the bore after cleaning (memo to me, put a better light over the kitchen table). This was after he had spent half an hour cleaning it. I'm okay with that.

 

[Zach S]

The only thing I see out of place is taking the pistol off of the range. I would have left it on the bench while asking to borrow a dowel, but mainly because it isn't my house.

A BRIGHT flashlight down the barrel so you can see or not see the light on the bolt

I carry a Surefire 6PX everywhere I go, and have used it to check for squibs.

 

[chhodge69]

Squib Happens.

Put a $3 LED flashlight and a section or cleaning rod in your range bag. Or go to the hardware store and buy a short piece of brass rod of the proper size.

I don't like pointing a gun at my face either, for any reason, "safe" or not. If I'm cleaning my gun and it's partially disassembled and the ammo is in the other room, then ok. But I'm DEFINITELY not going to do it at the range.

So no, I will not be doing this any time soon:

 

[al1599]

You practiced great gun safety, so I see nothing wrong with it. Looking down the barrel of any gun is just stupid wether empty or loaded. It's like the saying is- you are the primary safety for a gun. The only time i look into a barrel is when the gun is field stripped and ive brushed the barrel a few times with some Hoppes 9 to clean it and even then i look through the breach end just to make sure it shines like it should, so it's more like looking "up the barrel" as one of the previous posters said

 

[Shawn Dodson]

It's better to be glad that you exercised care and caution than to wish you had.

 

[dmazur]

I may raise this question the next time I'm at our range.

We have a "cased and unloaded" rule for bringing guns to the firing line and removing them after shooting. There is also an "actions locked / bolts out, hands off the gun" rule when the range goes cold.

There isn't any rangemaster station behind the firing line to go to for help, so I'm not sure what folks do.

I'm going to guess some percentage maintain muzzle discipline while they verify unloaded status and try to figure it out. The remainder probably unload if possible, case it and take it to a gunsmith. I've never seen anyone trying amateur gunsmithing in the parking lot. Not yet, anyway.

The one rule that is absolutely enforced is nobody messes with a gun when the range is cold, and that includes taking one out of a case. It's OK to leave the gun laying on the bench or in a rest (aimed at everyone), but the actions have to be open or bolts have to be out or have empty chamber indicators. I see a nice little routine where everyone walks the firing line, inspecting rifles or pistols as they head for the side path to the targets.

One guy thought he could adjust his scope. He had his bolt out, and the gun was, therefore, incapable of firing. But the local rule has no exceptions. The guys at the targets want to be able to look back and see unattended rifles. If you don't need to service your target, drink coffee...

So, I'm going to specifically ask about squibs, as opposed to loaded round with action locked up. I kind of like the flashlight test, as it can be done while maintaining muzzle discipline. We allow cleaning at the firing line (range hot), so I imagine brass rods to deal with squibs would also be allowed.

 

[TNboy]

I'd rather be shooting around someone who is overly cautious than the other way around.

 

[orionengnr]

He mentioned an incident in which an armed robber presented a handgun to a store owner, tried to shoot the weapon, and when it failed to go off, he looked right down the barrel and the round finished discharging - right into his eye, a lethal shot that killed him instantly.

This is a non sequitur. A hang fire and a squib are two entirely different animals.
If you have extracted/ejected the case, any powder has been burned or dumped. Looking down the barrel at this point poses zero risk.

As an earlier poster said, have you never inspected the bore of a pistol or rifle (after ensuring the chamber is clear)? Same thing.

Being "safe" is one thing...understanding the function of the machinery in question and being able to perform accurate risk assessment is another.

 

[Doogle]

I agree with most of your actions...>

...apart from taking the weapon off the range. I'd leave it on the bench with the action open and go and get a rod.

In fact, I carry a rod specifically to check for bore obstructions. I don't want to be looking down the barrel on the range. I don't think it's a good habit to get into when live ammo is about, no matter how careful I may think I am. There may not be any danger after a squid load but shooting safety is closely aligned with ingrained procedures. I think it's also a bad look on a range.

Checking the bore when cleaning is a different matter. I'm not shooting, there's no ammo about, and I have already checked the action and cleaned the barrel.

 

[pintler]

FWIW, when the NRA started requiring chamber flags for Bullseye I made a bunch of chamber flags to hand out to folks who hadn't got the memo - an L shaped piece of weedeater line. The long leg is an inch longer than the barrel and the short leg is a couple of inches; you stick the long leg down the barrel and let the short leg hang out the ejection port. Just use a heat gun to bend the 'L'.

I mention this because they make quick work of checking for a stuck bullet, and you don't even need to be sticking a rod in from the muzzle end.

 

[jcwit]

Excellent point, pintler, and should be required at every range when the line is cold, rifles, handguns, shotguns. NO EXCEPTIONS.

 

[dmazur]

...should be required at every range when the line is cold...

I agree. However, I doubt we can get universal acceptance at our club.

There's apparently just too many years of "bolt removed or action locked open" ingrained.

I could mention the weedeater line idea, and leaving a can of them available. I'll bet many would use them, as they would be free.

Personally, I'm happy to see the rigid requirement for some kind of visual proof of gun being empty or disabled.

I agree that uniformity would probably be safer. But as long as our members are paranoid about safety as a goal, I'll live with inconsistent "empty" indicators.

 

[earplug]

A length of coiled Weed eater line takes up little space and will tell you all you need to know.
Its also handy to clean spent primer tubes on reloading presses.

 

[jj1962hemi]

To me, some of this depends on your attitude and the way your brain/nerves is set up. I can get nervous at my local indoor range (it's loud, there are many people I don't know), so I would do the same thing as the OP. I won't put my revolver down, at the indoor range, without having the action open. I rarely put down a semi-auto with the action closed. My notion is that if I follow all this stuff obsessively, when my attention is diverted, or I'm in a hurry, etc., I won't do something stupid. I've seen seasoned shooters do stupid things at the skeet range due to getting too comfortable. When you're in a hurry, under pressure, etc., you make mistakes. I know myself well enough that I've become a creature of habit to avoid casual mistakes. I think some of this caution is akin to the "shoulder check" when changing lanes. Why not?

 

[BCRider]

You're right to not want to get into looking down barrels as a casual thing. But if you can check it and know for sure that the action is locked open and there is no casing in the chamber and once having confirmed all these things THEN look down the barrel to check for obstructions then you've done your checks.

The thing is that the checks should be the habit. Not the looking down the barrel.

To my mind it's a little silly to suggest that we never look down barrels. At gun shows there's folks all over the place checking on the barrel condition with flash lights, bore lights or those funky plastic light pipe deals. And I suspect most of them do so with a lot of trust that the vendor hasn't left a round in the chamber by some chance.

Me? Sure, I check barrels at the shows that way too. But I ensure the chamber is clear FOR MYSELF first.

 

[hso]

"I just think it's a bad habit to be looking down the barrel of a gun whenever there's a malfunction."

Good answer and great attitude.

 

[BP44]

I Will go ahead and be the whipping boy, I feel safety has overtaken the regular Joe and made him dumb as a box of rocksCommon sense is not so common anymore is the sad fact of life. Looking down the bore of a firearm is not dangerous if it is unloaded to check for a bore obstruction. If you happen to be the " every gun is loaded" type I understand your point of view but I am the sort that checks and re-checks to verify my guns are loaded. I understand it's the same idea but expanded it seems to make realistic sense to me as I have found every gun Isn't loaded Call me crazy but I feel that I can spot a loaded firearm if I handle it.Interesting topic that I have thought about for a long while and it deserves discussion. Please be carefull As all guns are loaded and they are spookey and loaded and dangerous all the time. I hope to not offend anyone but the way i see it a firearm is a tool and nothing more, if you make a tool ready for use it will be ready and if you render it safe it Will be safe.it is really simple and I feel we are playing into the " dangers of firearms". Yes stupid folks give gun owners a bad name and a perceived need for more rules but then again so do stupid driversA little sense goes a long way and I left common out for a reason

 

[jcwit]

I agree BP44 absolutly. If one checks a firearm, has the action open or the bolt locked open, has visually checked the chamber for a shell or cartridge and everything is checked as safe then what in heavens name is the problem with looking down inspecting the barrel.

For those of you who were in the service in the days of the Garand and the M14, do you remember how good old Sarge inspected your barrel to see if it was clean during basic training. I sure do, he looked down the muzzle of the rifle after all checks mentioned above, NO he did not use the little gismo with a mirror to inspect the bore. And if there was still time for you to keep cleaning the barrel he let the bolt SLAM into battery, thereby releasing some soot from the gas chamber so you could go back and clean your rifles bore some more.

Why do I remember this, because I disassembled my gas chamber and cleaned it and cleaned the piston so the above would not happen. My reward was I got to help Sarg inspect the others rifles.

Do ALL the safety checks from habit, then inspect the barrel if needed, but not from habit.

Common sense.

Why is this so difficult to comprehend?

And I dare say almost everyone does it at a dealers and/or gun show. How else pray tell is one to inspect the bore of a semi auto, lever, or pump action rifle?