Expanding bullet for AK 47

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kkayser

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Can anyone suggest a good expanding bullet round for my AK 47. I intend to use it for deer hunting. My Saiga AK shoots Wolf full metal jacket (FMJ) more accurately than any other ammo I have tried. Wolf makes a jacketed hollow point (JHP). Does anyone know of anything better? I notice that the best rounds for 9 mm killing power are all 147 grain. Can I assume that in the AK heavier bullets will have more killing power?

I also can use my AK for home protection. I need a round which has less penetration than a FMJ. Would a heavier and slower bullet have less penetration both in human tissue and building materials?
 
Soft nose of whatever brand you prefer and shoots the best out of your rifle will do the job if you make a quality shot. I have used my AK47 for hunting as well for hunting and that's what works for me. As for home defense; faster moving projectiles that destabilize faster work better for home purposes. Do a thread search and you will find plenty on it. Just my 2 cents.
 
I had an issue with finding proper hunting ammo in 7.62x54R, which I could only find Privi Partisan soft points. my solution; Load my own ammo. So if you're looking to expand (pun intended) your selection of ammo, I suggest you pick up a reloading manual, learn the basics of reloading, and see if it is worth it to you. It might not be an economically better solution, but it will by far give you a variety that is particularly scarce in soviet mil-surp cartridges
 
For home defense, the Wolf Military Classic 124 gr JHP in the brown box, not the black, is, or used to be, loaded with the excellent Uly "Sapsan" projectile. Whereas other JHPs in that particular cartridge have developed a reputation for erractic, unpredictable behavior, the Uly round is regarded as one of the best projectiles available because of its consistency--making it both more accurate than most other JHPs and more predictable in tissue. The round exhibits near perfect performance for home defense, losing about half of its mass due to fragmentation in the course of its typical 14 to 16 inches of penetration, and coming to a rest somewhere around 1.5 to 2x its original diameter.

The Hornady TAP rounds have developed a similar reputation for accuracy and terminal performance, but will probably be a lot more expensive.

For hunting, I would stick to a good JSP and keep the ranges moderate.
 
If you shoot a deer with a 7.62 x 39 FMJ it's going to do as much damage as a SP or HP. The 7.62 x 39 is not a high velocity cartridge. I wouldn't be surprised if a 30 gr 22 wmr isn't faster. The FMJ is going to start tumbling when it hits the deer. If you are broke and can't afford a better rifle the AK is an OK deer rifle. But traditional hunting cartridges will perform much better.

I hunted a couple seasons with an SKS when I bought the land my house is on and built the house. I have never had so many deer run off after a perfect shot in my life. I shot one buck 8 times before I put him down. Four shots went right through the deers heart, two went through his shoulder blades and two shots hit him in the spleen. Any of those shots with a 30/06 or 270 would have been a one shot kill. Yet with the 7.62 x 39 it took 8 winchester soft point bullets. The 7.62 x 39 has virtually no hydrostatic shock.
 
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I like to pull the bullets on Wolf MC fmj and replace them with a 125gr Sierra .312 soft point then give them a light factory crimp. These shoot quite well out of my Saiga.

For SD, a Vmax bullet would do the job.

Good luck




M
 
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Deer Freak said:
I hunted a couple seasons with an SKS when I bought the land my house is on and built the house. I have never had so many deer run off after a perfect shot in my life. I shot one buck 8 times before I put him down. Four shots went right through the deers heart, two went through his shoulder blades and two shots hit him in the spleen. Any of those shots with a 30/06 or 270 would have been a one shot kill. Yet with the 7.62 x 39 it took 8 winchester soft point bullets. The 7.62 x 39 has virtually no hydrostatic shock
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.

I dont know what to tell you, but every deer(5-6 mature mule deer bucks, larger than the average whitetail considerably) I have shot with the 7.62x39 cartridge has dropped within 15 yards of impact, one shot kills. The round is fully capable of harvesting deer-sized game, and I don't know of anyone who has reported the same kind of results as you have. Its got ballistics simliar and only SLIGHTLY inferior to the 30-30 Winchester round, and that has killed as many deer as any round I'm aware of. If you can't cleanly harvest a deer with the 7.62x39 round, within its capabilities (200 yards of under), another caliber won't solve things. When you put bullets where they belong, deer die, especially with perforated by a .311 caliber bullet! While some of the guns that chamber it may not be ideal deer rifles, the round itself is a fully capable deer round. That said, I STRONGLY suggest ignoring the comments about a fmj round performing as well as a quality soft point round. For one, fmj rounds are ILLEGAL in the vast majority of areas as hutning ammo, because they are INEFFECTIVE, often leaving an exit wound no bigger than the entrance. Also, the 7.62x39 offers PLENTY of velocity to facilitate bullet expansion, as any of the many gel tests out there can attest to. Any quality softpoint will do the job as long as you do yours, but hunting with a fmj 7.62x39 bullet is foolish, illegal in many places, and ill-advised in all. I thin saying that fmj rounds are as effective as other bullet types is grossly negligent and not something anyone with much real-world experience or knowledge would suggest. Comparing it to the velocity of a .22WMR is just silly.....yes, the are roughly the same speed, but comparing a highly frangible 30 grain load to a well constructed 124 grain solft point is comparing apples to oranges, and serves absolutely no purpose but confusion. There is absolutely NO comparison to the two rounds, and there is FAR more to cartridge performance than simply muzzle velocity. Then again, coming from someone who advises the use of "3.5 in" .410 shells for flying game, the advice doesn't totally shock me. Why can't people stick to posting about things they at least have a basic comprehension of? Life would be so much more simple.....
 
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Quote:
I notice that the best rounds for 9 mm killing power are all 147 grain.

Where did you notice that??

Testing by the FBI. I use the one which made the largest cavity in ballistic gel: Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364). Only one 115 gr made the list: Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP. All rounds on the list were JHP.
 
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"home defence(sic) or slaying bambi?"

We don't hunt fawns in Wisconsin. In hunting the aim is to kill the target, not wound it. It is a matter of humane harvest, to cause the least suffering in the animal. In Wisconsin we have over 600,000 deer. If none were harvested they would all suffer enormously from lack of food. They would do damage to crops.

As for home defense it is a matter of safety. We want a bullet which does not pass through the target and hit an innocent person or pass through a wall and hit an innocent person.

You may think these are trivial issues, but few others do.
 
ID-shooting said:
Herters 154gr soft point. Slays the heck out of fire-breathing deer.
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I am hesitant to use Herter's ammo after a felllow club member blew up his Kimber pistol with it. It cost him several hundred dollars for repair. When he told the Cabellas clerk about it, the clerk said that this was not the first time he has heard this about Herter's ammo. Both Cabellas and Herters declined to share the repair cost.
 
kkayser said:
Quote:
I notice that the best rounds for 9 mm killing power are all 147 grain.

Where did you notice that??

Testing by the FBI. I use the one which made the largest cavity in ballistic gel: Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364). Only one 115 gr made the list: Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP. All rounds on the list were JHP.
Click to expand...
Federal 115 grain 9mm 9PBLE +p+ definitely gets the job done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9iiaXoRaRY
 
Very helpful

This has been very helpful. I do have some Prvi Partizan soft point. I will use that for now. I really like Wolf ammo. They have a JHP. I will buy two boxes of that. Then, I think I will get some gelatin a do a few tests to see which round has the least penetration and makes the biggest cavity.
 
my experience with the wolf hp 7.62x39 is failure to expand. It may have just been my lot, but shooting it into various mediums just resulted in a 7.62 bullet that tumbled and bent in the middle, but no expansion from the tip. I have had good luck with the brown/silver/golden bear 154gr soft points however.
 
Cor-Bon makes a very nice heavy SP in x39.

Would a heavier and slower bullet have less penetration both in human tissue and building materials?
Click to expand...

No. But an expanding bullet, if it expands, will slow down faster and penetrate less.
 
If you shoot a deer with a 7.62 x 39 FMJ it's going to do as much damage as a SP or HP. The 7.62 x 39 is not a high velocity cartridge. I wouldn't be surprised if a 30 gr 22 wmr isn't faster. The FMJ is going to start tumbling when it hits the deer. If you are broke and can't afford a better rifle the AK is an OK deer rifle. But traditional hunting cartridges will perform much better.
Click to expand...

Many states prohibit FMJ's for hunting game. I would argue that the 7.62x39 is very much a high powered cartridge. It is hotter past 200 yards than a .30-30, and my 94's and 336's hammer the Texas whitetail I hunt.

For the AK, I run the silver bear soft points for pigs. Cheap, effective.
 
If you shoot a deer with a 7.62 x 39 FMJ it's going to do as much damage as a SP or HP. The 7.62 x 39 is not a high velocity cartridge. I wouldn't be surprised if a 30 gr 22 wmr isn't faster. The FMJ is going to start tumbling when it hits the deer. If you are broke and can't afford a better rifle the AK is an OK deer rifle. But traditional hunting cartridges will perform much better.
Click to expand...

FMJ is just as good? I suppose pretty much the entire LE and hunting communities have been making a big mistake for some time then? Yes, that is sarcasm. The 7.62x39 goes plenty fast enough to expand at practical distances with a well designed HP or SP. And it will be far more effective than a FMJ.
 
thanks

firesky101 said:
my experience with the wolf hp 7.62x39 is failure to expand. It may have just been my lot, but shooting it into various mediums just resulted in a 7.62 bullet that tumbled and bent in the middle, but no expansion from the tip. I have had good luck with the brown/silver/golden bear 154gr soft points however.
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Thank you. I did notice that the "hole" at the tip of the Wolf JHP is very small. I was all set to buy 4 boxes until the shipping cost came up. I will forget the Wolf JHP, and look for some Bear 154 to try. I would expect it to be very similar to the Prvi.
 
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