expensive gun

[BowerR64]

Well, here's the dilemma (at least when it comes to auctions):

If the item is questionable or fraudulent (as is clearly the case here), more "eyes" can help ferret it out.

BUT if the item is good, you have just publicized it and brought in more potential bidders to bid against you.

When I get bargains on gunbroker, ebay, etc., more likely than not it's because the seller misdescribed the item and it eluded other bidders' searches.

You HAVE to know what you're bidding on. Otherwise you'll be a big loser on the auction sites.

Ive had that happen on other forums when i was into other things.

The problem right now is that there are a TON of new gun buyers then there use to be and alot of them are clueless on what they are buying. I would of figured this the normal about 4-5 months ago but now it just seems crazy these people are still giving this kind of money for this stuff.

Now they are giving stupid money for ammo the guns buying seems to have slowed down but the ammo still seems a little silly.

The good thing for us is eventually all these people will decide to unload all these guns they franticly bought and they will turn up in pawnshops and gun shows cheap.

 

[Berkley]

The squared-off rear of the trigger guard, did the Dragoons have that?

-rondog

From the top:
Whitneyville-Hartford Dragoon
First Model Dragoon
Second Model Dragoon
Third Model Dragoon

 

[CraigC]

Here's the message I got back from the seller:

"We listed this initially not realizing it was a modern replica. All of the bidders were notified and the eventual winner, with full knowledge of the proofmarks, bid accordingly. Thank you for your message."

So you're telling me that somebody is going to knowingly pay $2000 for a $300 replica???

 

[denster]

CraigC

Did you notice that the winning bidder started placing bids at near the end of the auction invoking the 15 minute rule a few times and pushing the auction end by about 40 minutes. I doubt the seller notified the bidder when he couldn't have even known he existed until the last few minutes of the auction.

 

[CraigC]

Good point!

 

[rondog]

Thanks Berkley! Reckon it was the 3rd Model I was thinking of. I used to have a repro of one that was so poorly made I gave it to a photographer to use as a prop. No way it was safe to shoot.

 

[AlexanderA]

The "winning bidder" might have been a buddy of the seller. This could have been collusion to prevent any other (clueless) person from winning the auction and then getting the seller into trouble with fraud accusations. In other words, this could have been the opposite of shill bidding.

My theory is that the clueless bidder is not the winner, but the person making the second-highest bid. It would have been hard for the seller to withdraw the item once bids started being placed.

(All that assumes that the seller is honest.)

 

[dickydalton]

I said Colt "Markings" not proof marks. Do a little research and you will find that the Second Generation Colts ARE considered Colts. There are no foreign proof marks on my Second Gen. Colts.

 

[Crawdad1]

It will be interesting to see how the seller defends himself if there is fallout over this auction. In my opinion he has a lot of room. "I never said it was an original Colt." "Look at the proof marks in the pictures, I never tried to hide anything."
If the buyer is a REAL bidder, he just bought himself a real expensive revolver that could have been purchased brand new at a fraction of that price.

 

[dickydalton]

I agree with that.

 

[BHP FAN]

I guess he paid for a custom ageing job. I usually use steel wool and an overnight bath in marinara sauce....

 

[Berkley]

This is an 1848 Colt Dragoon Revolver.

I guess it depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

 

[Crawdad1]

You have a point there Berkley. But, I'll have to say that there are some people out there that are really good at ripping people off. I sure would like to see how this turns out though. That is, after the buyer, if he is a real buyer, gets the revolver. I guess we'll never know.

 

[MattShlock]

No Faith

I have no faith in e-Bay nor Gunbroker. They both make money from commissions. No sale -- no profit.

e-Bay took money from my bank account the day after I was credited for a transcation they took a month to agree was fraudalent the next day simply because the crook asked for it back. When I started calling this blacksmith named Keller where he and his jeweler/photographer wife work at a Texas trail museum SHE had the credit issued just before I called the County D.A. e-Bay was worse than useless.

Gunbroker would not refund to me, and a half dozen other sellers, the commission on "sold" items a fraudalent buyer wouldn't actually pay for. He'd "win" a bid but only pay those for the items he actually, eventually, chose. He made excuse after excuse while he shopped around for different versions of the same things as you could eventually see from his "buying" history. His account was closed by Gunbroker within two months due to all the complaints and warnings soon posted about this guy but Gunbroker kept the cash from sales that never happened and would not even respond to requests to reverse the sales except to say "inquiry closed" every time we tried to reopen the issue.

Do not buy something, nor sell, thru these unless you can afford to throw the purchase price or commission charge away -- you always run that risk.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Like any other auction, one has to know enough about what one is bidding on in order to decide what they're willing to invest into the bidding process.

Regardless of the poor/inadequate description, there is enough evidence in the photographs to determine a realistic, approximate value.

That said, I don't think I'll be considering much of what this particular seller has, should I run across an interesting auction of his on my own.

 

[CraigC]

I just went round and round with a Gunbroker seller because his pics and description didn't jibe. He insists that the revolver is "new and unturned". It is listed as "factory new", even though it doesn't include a box and has very, very obvious wear on the bolt notches, along with a turn line that shouldn't be there, new or not. He said some very unpleasant things about my wife, my children (don't have any) and my parents and told me to go kill myself. Guess I won't be bidding on that one. Even though the current bid is a fair price.

Two weeks ago I emailed a seller with a 1st generation Colt SAA with a serial number and an unseen factory letter saying it shipped in 1906. He swears it is an original .44Spl. Only problem is that the .44Spl didn't debut until late 1907 to early 1908 and Colt didn't produce one until five years later. It also has the wrong barrel markings for an early Colt .44Spl. Obviously a sixgun that was converted with 2nd generation or aftermarket parts. Some sucker actually paid his $4500 "Buy it Now" price. Probably about triple what it's actually worth. IMHO, you absolutely cannot depend on the seller to be up front about everything. Study the pics and KNOW what you're looking at.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I just went round and round with a Gunbroker seller because his pics and description didn't jibe. He insists that the revolver is "new and unturned". It is listed as "factory new", even though it doesn't include a box and has very, very obvious wear on the bolt notches, along with a turn line that shouldn't be there, new or not. He said some very unpleasant things about my wife, my children (don't have any) and my parents and told me to go kill myself. Guess I won't be bidding on that one. Even though the current bid is a fair price.

Two weeks ago I emailed a seller with a 1st generation Colt SAA with a serial number and an unseen factory letter saying it shipped in 1906. He swears it is an original .44Spl. Only problem is that the .44Spl didn't debut until late 1907 to early 1908 and Colt didn't produce one until five years later. It also has the wrong barrel markings for an early Colt .44Spl. Obviously a sixgun that was converted with 2nd generation or aftermarket parts. Some sucker actually paid his $4500 "Buy it Now" price. Probably about triple what it's actually worth. IMHO, you absolutely cannot depend on the seller to be up front about everything. Study the pics and KNOW what you're looking at.

Good price or no, I wouldn't do business with someone like this. A shame...because if he didn't really understand what he had and accepted the information as something to study and verify, I could see myself very easily end up a customer if it were still something I was interested in and it was, as you say, a fair price.

There's a lot to be said for honor and integrity.

 

[Jaymo]

CraigC, I sure hope you gave him a good, verbal, Rebel Asskickin'.

 

[CraigC]

CraigC, I sure hope you gave him a good, verbal, Rebel Asskickin'.

I did my best, hope he cried himself to sleep last night. Kinda comical though, I'll forward the message to you, you'll get a kick out of it.

 

[Jim K]

I am not an attorney and don't play one on TV, but I seem to recall that if an antique dealer sells a repro as an antique, he is considered an expert and can be prosecuted for fraud. But an auction house is not a dealer but is simply hired by the seller to sell the item, it is not responsible under the law for any claims made by the seller. The seller could be sued or prosecuted for fraud, but the chances of winning a case are very remote.

Jim