National Match AR

[hub]

Hey guys I'm getting ready to start a National Match AR build for high power and was wanting to get some of your opinions on which brand of components to use.

Obvioulsy I would be using a A2 floated upper with match sights probably a RR two stage trigger and Wilson match barrel from White Oak if I can get one. Any other suggestions for barrels or where to get them at a good price?

I was thinking of using a Rock River stripped upper and lower with the RR two stage trigger but in your opinion is it worth the extra cost vs something like a Del-ton? After adding up the costs I think I could build the same exact rifle using a Del-ton stripped upper+lower vs Rock River for $150-$200 cheaper.

I would assume they are probably just about equal in quality. If so would the name alone make it worth the extra cost in resale value?

So what would you do? I could swing the extra cost but would rather put the money into reloading supplies if the only advantage is just the name on the side for bragging rights. This is probably not something I would resell either.

Also any suggestions where to buy for the best price right now?

 

[shooterer]

Search here: www.nationalmatch.us the top HP shooters in the world hang out there.

Jim

 

[WNTFW]

A used rifle may be an option if you can find one.

 

[Canuck-IL]

I don't think the name brand stamp on the upper/lower would matter in terms of accuracy. Have John cut the WIlson chamber to his normal specs. Spend the money you save over the RR brand name parts on a Geiselle or X-Treme trigger over the RR 2-stage. Get 1/4*1/4 NM sights and have them pinned (WOA again or Compass Lake).

I've never evaluated a build based on resale, just reliability and accuracy. My heirs can worry about the resale.
/Bryan

 

[LiveLife]

Darn, we could only drool out here in California with all these AR threads .... Glad I snagged a Bushmaster before the ban.

 

[taliv]

i used a RRA NM as a base, and had white oak rebarrel it and pin the sights.
if white oak was quoting a lead time that doesn't work for you, i wouldn't hesitate to go to compass lake. they've done great work for me several times too.

edit: i wasn't super impressed with the x-treme trigger. the RRA 2-stage is ok, but it's no geissele hi-speed. i used a jewell, which was very crisp, but also unreliable. i have several of geissele's triggers, but i never got around to putting one in my service rifle

 

[hub]

Search here: www.nationalmatch.us the top HP shooters in the world hang out there.

I am a member there too and have searched, thanks for the advice though. Seems like a really knowledgeable sight but thought I would ask here first.

A used rifle may be an option if you can find one.

Good point I have searched GB and I could build my own for what most want but who knows I'll keep looking.

Taliv, I also have considered compass lake just kinda depends on wait time. I have also considered just buying a upper from either, honestly with the pinned sights it wouldn't be a whole lot more unless I went with the Del-ton. The Geissele triggers look good but are kind of high for me right now, I was thinking if I didn't like the Rock River I could have it tuned.

 

[P-32]

I started with a RRA NM lower which comes with the RRA 2 stage. I also bought a RRA 2 stage trigger from White Oak Armory when I ordered a uppper from White Oak Precision. I then sent the now second RRA 2 stage into WOP to have it tuned.

WOA and WOP are the 2 different companies under one guy, John. John has a close friend, Mike who builds rifles for WOA while John builds rifles for WOP.

Both are High Power shooters and both build a fine upper. They have a 16 to 20 week back log. I think this is pretty normal for the better plummers no matter if it's a AR, M-1 or M1A to have this kind of wait.

I have 2 WOP uppers. The first upper is a 6 1/2 to 1 Nor Pac. This upper is now my loaner gun but it still shoots at 600 very well. I recently put a RRA lower together for this upper. It was not a NM reciever and the fit between the upper and the lower is not as good as it was with the NM lower. But it is still pretty tight.

My second WOP upper has a Kreiger 7 to 1 twist barrel. This barrel makes little to no copper. The NM lower and this upper has a very tight fit with the need to force them together to get the rear pin in.

In a moment of weakness, I ordered a geissele trigger. I fit this trigger into my NM upper and found these are great triggers. I have always been very happy with the RRA 2 stage, but the geissele is head and shoulders above them.

I have a shooting buddy I helped hook into High Power. He shot my Pac Nor upper when he shot across the course for the very first time last summer. He shot in the 180's at 600 with tricky wind conditions. He is now waiting for a WOA upper to arrive.

Compass Lake also builds a fine upper. I have a shooting buddy who has a Compass Lake rifle. No complaints from him.

I would look at getting 1/4 by 1/4 moa sights. Some people think 1/2 by 1/2 is good enough but the better uppers can use the 1/4 sights. Yeah, there is more clicks to deal with but I don't care.

Good luck

 

[Winston_Smith]

I just built one myself. I went with a WOA service rifle upper 1/2x1/2 and Geiselle service rifle trigger. WOA sells everything to complete your build. Just be ready for 4-6 month wait.

If I could do it over again, I would get the Geiselle SSA.

FYI, LRB has lowers for $60 right now, just have your FFL order one for you.

 

[westerngrizzly]

these are the things that I have discovered.
upper/lower fit doesnt matter
the RR trigger sucks
the GA trigger and the Xtreme are very simmilar in feel but the Xtreme has a lock time of 4 miliseconds and is cheaper
get 1/4x1/4 sights with interchangeble apperatures
most barrels are good. with krieger, saturn, ect being great
these are all just my opinion. just remember that buy the best you can afford instead of buying somthing two or three times
matt

 

[shooterer]

The Rock River 2 stage trigger sucks? Really? Did you mean to say "The Bush Master DMC trigger sucks"

 

[westerngrizzly]

no. i got one of the RR triggers from White Oak and it was great in the begining but about halfway through the season the second stage started to dissapear. it was getting scary. and when i went to perry this past summer i had Geiselle install his trigger. and he was SHOCKED at the RR trigger.
matt

 

[P-32]

Did you just buy the RRA from White Oak or was it also tuned? If tuned by White Oak they do stand behind their work. I also know both Mike and John go to Perry. Not only do they run their booth, they both shoot.

Having said that....I broke down and put a geissele 2 stage in my primary rifle. Nice, Very nice.

 

[paulo]

Check out High Preformance International.
Mike has been building great rifles for years

 

[westerngrizzly]

it was tuned.
and the geissele is adjustable. I just over all prefer it.
matt

 

[hub]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

For an update, I was pretty set on building my own, but after figuring in wait times and shipping on individual parts I decided to rethink that a bit since highpower starts next month. As suggested I looked around for a used rifle. Well, I found an upper on another forum that was previously mentioned in this thread.

It is a Rock River NM with 1/2moa x 1/2 moa .40 sights and of course a Wilson 1-8 twist barrel. It came with a headspaced bolt, complete carrier group, and charging handle. The seller said it was still new and unfired by anyone except Rock River. I paid $600 for it shipped and it's in perfect condition. I'm guessing it was a pretty good deal considering I have no wait time and it lists for $730 from Rock River. I also purchased a new Rock River lower with the two stage trigger off gunbroker for $350 shipped. I think I did OK at $950 for a complete rifle. They seem to list for quite a bit more than that from Rock River $1215 and around $1100-$1400 on GB.

So any ammo recommendations? I just started reloading not to long ago but do have some components on hand from reloading for my other AR. Right now I have about 1000 pieces of winchester brass and 500 Lake City. I do have some PMC bronze as well but haven't used them all up yet but I will have 500 of those to reload after a couple good practice days at the range. I also have around 4lbs of Varget and 1100-1200 55gr Dogtown SP bullets from midway.

So do you think the 55gr sp would do OK from the 200 or 300? I've gotten sub moa accuracy out of them with my 1x9 twist bull barreled AR. Obviously the wind would affect them more but I do need some practice on wind calls. I also plan on ordering 600 Hornady 75gr HPBT as soon as they are back in stock to shoot from the 600 but maybe the whole course if the 55's are considered no good. Any thoughts?

 

[westerngrizzly]

souns like a good upper. you may at some point want to replace the sights.
as of ammo
these are my loads
200-300
75grn HPBT
24.5 Varget
7.5 primer
600
80 SMK
23.7 grns N140
7.5 Primer
matt

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

just check to make sure the sights are tracking true and are not binding in the windage travel. easy fix if they are.

as far as the trigger on the RRA rifle I and a few others have never had a permament problem with them. Yes they lose weight once in awhile but its a simple fix and the most common problem is the legs of the trigger springs become uneven after some use. just even them up and your weight should move back into the correct break weight. if not correct just bend them slightly in the correct even direction untill the weight comes back.
as far as losing the 2nd stage it takes someone with the knowladge of the trigger to get it back to where it should be, not a big problem and it usually happens early in the triggers life.
If you are at perry it becomes a easy fix if you are having problems. #1 take the lower to RRA's booth and they will fix it for you or you can take it to the marines or someone else like them. Take it when you plan on getting your trigger weighed and go when it is slow and ask them to fix it. most of the time you can come back a few hours later and its ready to rock (just leave them a nice tip for their beer fund).

I do not like to give other triggers a bad rap that have been mentioned.

Now my opinions on your bullet choices are just mine but is what I think your course is with what you plan on using.

First yes you can use the 75's across the course and you can do fine with them. there is something to say for only using one load across the course. I do not do it but many do and some have won the big matches doing it.

try your 55's and see how they work out at 200 and 300. some folks have played with using light bullets and pushing them fast believing the reduced recoil and speed of the bullets have helped them at the closer targets.

I believe in giving folks a positive outlook and I do believe you are on the right track. You will have plenty of time learning on your own and with advice from close friends.

good luck