Experiences with S&W and/or Colt 1917's in 45 ACP?

[the Real Alpo]

This 1917 Smith. Barrel cut to 3 1/2".



Three different bullets in this target. The three at the bottom - that look like 30 caliber holes - are 230 grain hardball. The two above them, with the lead ring around them, are 230 grain LRN. Both of these bullets flew straight and true.

The ones that are circled, however, are Lee 230 grain Truncated Cone Tumble Lube. As you can see, they went through sideways.

I've posted that picture before, and someone explained that the 1917 has very shallow rifling, since it was designed for jacketed ammo. The round nose bullets, with normal grease grooves and driving bands, worked well with the shallow rifling. The tumble lube bullets, however, with their much smaller driving bands, were unable to grip the rifling.

Something to consider when choosing a 1917. I have a 625, and do not have the same problem with the tumble lube bullets.

 

[John Joseph]

I can't think of a single thing to dislike about any N frame Smith.

 

[Old Stumpy]

I owned Colt New Service and S&W New Century revolvers, which are the same as the 1917 revolvers, except these particular ones were both made in .455 Colt. Still, the .455 and the .45 ACP are similar to shoot. I really enjoyed shooting the Colt, but never got around to shooting the S&W. The feel of the Smith was different though. Skinnier grips and the grip seemed smaller overall.
I had the New Service reamed out to .45 Colt, and it retained all of it's accuracy and I liked it even more.
These were cheap guns that a kid could afford back in the 1970s. How times have changed.

 

[Old Stumpy]

Unless your fist is the size of a canned ham, the Colt New Service is very hard to manage in double action. The S&W trigger is significantly better.

Dave

True about the Colt. You needed a long reach with your finger, and the classic forged steel "V" mainspring was quite heavy.
It's interesting to note that if you break that mainspring (don't ask) you can replace it with a Colt Python mainspring.
It' made from a flat strip of spring steel and the DA trigger pull is lighter then.

 

[Monac]

I had a Colt New Service for a long time. It had been refinished and had original, but varnished, grips. (I was a noob at the time) . Fortunately, it turned out to have an excellent single-action trigger (maybe it was tuned at the time of the refinishing?) and to be very accurate - but only with 230 grain FMJ loads. The double action pull was much too long and heavy for me to shoot it well that way. As other have noted, the sights are tiny by today's standards, and I sold the gun because I could not see them well enough for target shooting any more.

But the only big frame revolvers I like are 45 ACP, so two or three years ago I bought a Smith & Wesson Model 22-4 1950 Re-Issue, or whatever the correct nomenclature is:

https://www.gunauction.com/buy/12715587 (This is not my gun, nor my pictures. They look like factory pictures.)

It is my only modern (say, post 1965) S&W revolver, and it is terrific. The SA trigger pull is at least as good as the old Colt, the DA trigger pull is miles better, and the big wide dights are spot on (again, with 230 grain loads).

My only problem with it is the grips. They are N-frame square butt, and I have not been able to find anything that really suits my hand. The factory grips are beautiful, but much too small. I have pair of old Pachmayrs on it now, but they are just the least bad out of three or four grips I have tried (such as N-frame Magnas, with and without grip adapters, and old N-frame factory target grips).

I am much happier with this gun than with a 1917, but that's me. If it's a 1917 calling out to you, get one of those.

 

[StrawHat]

In the photo in post #24, the top two revolvers are both Model 22-4s, one is a Thunder Ranch version, one is a standard. The center row on the left is a 1917 with a shortened barrel, 4”. On the right is a M28-2 I converted in the 80’s. These all have my preferred 4” tapered barrel and grip adapter. I don’t rotate my EDC but these can all substitute for it and use the same holster.

Kevin

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

A friend has a S&W 1917. Nice old gun, fun to shoot and very accurate. I'm not sure why I don't own one?

 

[Deanimator]

I had a S&W M1917 back in the '80s. Despite what looked like a bullet strike in the side of the barrel, it shot well. I traded it for something else, I forget what, possible an S&W 29-2 I regret letting it go.

While not an actual M1917, my late aunt's boyfriend gave me a Commercial New Service he'd taken off of a Mexican criminal when he was a cop in Chicago in the '60s. It's WILDLY inaccurate. As near as the guy who worked on my guns and I could tell, it'd been a .45 Colt, and at some time had been converted to .45acp. Back then .45 Colt barrels were in the vicinity of .454/.455. The .452 bullets just bounced down the barrel, usually keyholing. Some day I plan to load some .45acp cases with .454 bullets to see what happens.

 

[Old Stumpy]

I had a S&W M1917 back in the '80s. Despite what looked like a bullet strike in the side of the barrel, it shot well. I traded it for something else, I forget what, possible an S&W 29-2 I regret letting it go.

While not an actual M1917, my late aunt's boyfriend gave me a Commercial New Service he'd taken off of a Mexican criminal when he was a cop in Chicago in the '60s. It's WILDLY inaccurate. As near as the guy who worked on my guns and I could tell, it'd been a .45 Colt, and at some time had been converted to .45acp. Back then .45 Colt barrels were in the vicinity of .454/.455. The .452 bullets just bounced down the barrel, usually keyholing. Some day I plan to load some .45acp cases with .454 bullets to see what happens.

I used full round nose 225 grain cast lead bullets dropped from a Lyman #452374 mold. These are designed for .45 ACP, but as cast and unsized they are closer to .455" with softer lead alloys at around 850 FPS. These shot very well in my Colt New Service in .455 Colt, and still shot well when it was reamed out to .45 Colt. It also shot well in a Webley Mark IV in .455 Eley.
And, sized to .452", they were accurate and cycled flawlessly in my Colt Series 70 in .45 ACP.
A most versatile bullet.

 

[35 Whelen]

I had a S&W M1917 back in the '80s. Despite what looked like a bullet strike in the side of the barrel, it shot well. I traded it for something else, I forget what, possible an S&W 29-2 I regret letting it go.

While not an actual M1917, my late aunt's boyfriend gave me a Commercial New Service he'd taken off of a Mexican criminal when he was a cop in Chicago in the '60s. It's WILDLY inaccurate. As near as the guy who worked on my guns and I could tell, it'd been a .45 Colt, and at some time had been converted to .45acp. Back then .45 Colt barrels were in the vicinity of .454/.455. The .452 bullets just bounced down the barrel, usually keyholing. Some day I plan to load some .45acp cases with .454 bullets to see what happens.

The old Colt's did indeed have .454" groove diameter barrels, but rest assured .452" bullets didn't bounce down the barrel. The bore diameter of the barrel is probably around .445", plenty to grab a bullet a little. However it's my understanding that the Colt 1917's and New Services had shallow rifling, which requires jacketed or hard-cast bullets. That would likely explain the wild inaccuracy.

I have a CA Bulldog .44 Special that has shallow rifling and bullets keyholed until I started casting them from a harder alloy.

35W

 

[Deanimator]

The old Colt's did indeed have .454" groove diameter barrels, but rest assured .452" bullets didn't bounce down the barrel. The bore diameter of the barrel is probably around .445", plenty to grab a bullet a little. However it's my understanding that the Colt 1917's and New Services had shallow rifling, which requires jacketed or hard-cast bullets. That would likely explain the wild inaccuracy.

I have a CA Bulldog .44 Special that has shallow rifling and bullets keyholed until I started casting them from a harder alloy.

35W

I've used nothing but ball and hard cast 200s in it with exactly the same results. I've had it looked at and the rifling is good.

 

[Deanimator]

I used full round nose 225 grain cast lead bullets dropped from a Lyman #452374 mold. These are designed for .45 ACP, but as cast and unsized they are closer to .455" with softer lead alloys at around 850 FPS. These shot very well in my Colt New Service in .455 Colt, and still shot well when it was reamed out to .45 Colt. It also shot well in a Webley Mark IV in .455 Eley.
And, sized to .452", they were accurate and cycled flawlessly in my Colt Series 70 in .45 ACP.
A most versatile bullet.

I live in an apartment with no balcony, so I won't be doing any bullet casting. I'll probably buy some. 454s from Penn Bullets or somebody eventually and see how they do