Experimenting with target shapes to get smaller groups

[J-Bar]

Only two of my guns have scopes; my deer rifle, a Ruger #1 in .270 W, and a Ruger 10/22. All the rest have open iron sights (not peep sights or ghost rings). As my eyes age, the groups I shoot with iron sights have gradually enlarged. No surprise.

But it got me to thinking, maybe the solid black ball bullseye is not the best target for me now. I wondered if changing the shape of the target would reduce group size.

And I think it does.

I tried several different target shapes...inverted "T", big "O" with nothing in the middle, quarter-sized solid dots...etc.

The best I have found so far for my eyes is an "M with wings". Attached are photos of two targets I shot today. I nestle the front bead down in the rear sight notch until only the bead shows, no post. Then aim so that the bead is between the legs of the "M", with the middle point of the "M" just touching the top of the bead.

Photo #1 shows that I got the legs of the "M" too narrow, but I still got a respectable group. Photo #2 shows an "M" with wider legs. When I shot at this one, I could see space between the bead and the legs of the "M" and could actually aim more precisely. I doubt that my old eyes can do much better than this.

I was shooting a 1946 Marlin 39-A, 10 shots with Eley Sport .22 Long Rifle standard speed, and the distance was 25 yards, shooting over a rest, naturally.

Have any of you played around with different target shapes to see if something suits your vision better than a conventional bullseye? If nothing else it is a good excuse to go out and burn some ammo!!

 

[Plan2Live]

Black sites against black bullseyes aren't the best site picture for me. Put me in most indoor ranges and I am darn near useless. I can see the target but not the sights, even the white dot sites.

One of the regulars at the range I shoot at had some contraption on his glasses the other day. It looked like a peep site hanging down in front of the dominant eye. He said it worked just like a peep site and helped him see much better.

 

[ming]

Now if you could just get a deer to wear one of those M's...

Seriously, it's not a bad idea. I might just do some experimenting with it on my next range trip.

 

[Tom609]

My 63 year old eyes don't like black targets with open sights either. What I like to use is a 4" round red circle that I print out on the office copier. I print it out centered on 11 x 17 paper. The extra white border makes it standout sharply.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Find the target that is absolutly the hardest to hit. That is the one you should use for practice. Game animals as well as uniformed soldiers tend to blend into the enviroment. Almost nothing in nature is flourecent orange.

 

[oneounceload]

I used to find, and buy, Redields's sighting in targets - they were orange diamond-shaped targets - one big one in the center and 4 smaller ones in the corners. Besides the grid in one inch segments, the diamond shape allowed me to place the reticule on those points and really helped me hold steady when working on groups

 

[J-Bar]

Find the target that is absolutly the hardest to hit. That is the one you should use for practice. Game animals as well as uniformed soldiers tend to blend into the enviroment. Almost nothing in nature is flourecent orange.

I'm sure you did not intend it, but I found your comment irritating.

My original post said that my deer rifle is scoped. I do not hunt with iron sights. The 13 whitetails I have killed have been one shot kills. I do not take the shot if I am not certain that I can make it.

My post has nothing to do with hunting, warfare, or fluorescent orange. It was an exercise to see how my vision and target shape affect group size.

 

[heron]

I'm on a different path, myself. I've found that with my bifocals, I can't see the front sight well enough to be certain of exactly where it is.

I have a rifle with aperture sights (Williams FP), though, and that works just fine, since I'm looking at the target and not at the sights. You might consider it. Iron sights don't work well for me at all any more.

I am currently trying to work up a homemade modification to the front sight on my Hi-point 995TS, to include one of the globe-sight reticles from my other gun. I just got the new front sights to experiment with, and haven't started work on them yet.

 

[Jim Watson]

Kind of reminds me of some of the old cap and ball turkey shoots where you could mark your card with any aiming point you wished to give you the best chance at hitting the "bud."

 

[brickeyee]

One of the regulars at the range I shoot at had some contraption on his glasses the other day. It looked like a peep site hanging down in front of the dominant eye. He said it worked just like a peep site and helped him see much better.

Sounds like a Merit devcie.

It is a small iris attached to a suction cup than can be placed on your shooting glasses.

The iris is adjustable.

The smaller the opening the better the depth of field produced, but the dimmer the image gets.

In bright light with a small opening you should be able to see the rear sight, front sight, and target all in perfect focus and sharpness.

Think 'pin hole camera.'

 

[Krogen]

I'm a cheapskate.... I've thought about the Merit discs as well. To see if it might work, I made some discs out of electrical tape. I used a .45 case and sharpened it with my case chamfering tool. Then I punched a hole in the center with pin punch. Designed for round ended pins, it makes a good cutter. Gave me a nice black doughnut to stick on my glasses. The hole's not quite small enough, so I may end up with a Merit eventually.

 

[deadin]

Before you spend the $50-60 for a Merit stick on aperture make sure it will fit on your glasses. I found that my lenses weren't big enough to handle the suction cup AND place the aperture in a comfortable position for shooting.
There are some "reading" lenses available that are made of a vinyl that will cling to your regular glasses and allow you to see both the front and rear sight. The target will be a little blurry, but that is the least important of the three sighting points.
BTW.. Aperture sights are great for paper target shooting, but leave a lot to be desired for any kind of a moving target as it will greatly reduce your field of vision.

 

[oldfool]

"aim small, miss small" is what works best for me
all your need is a clearly seen POA, the smallest you can see is plenty big enough, black target on white/light background, need not be a clean sharp image, just "seen", bull rings not required to look at group size, that's what binoculars are for

be it 1/2" dots at 20 yards, 2" at 60 yards, or whatever, matters not... just whatever aim point you can see well enough to target on with open sights, and a simple "dot" works better for me than even just a black felt tip marker pen X, just one and only one focal point

works same whether used scoped BR rifles long range, open iron sighted revolvers off-hand, anything
a bit like the old adage, you know...
(leastways if your nerves are steady enough)
don't aim at the man, aim at his shirt button