Peter M. Eick
Member
I decided to try and answer a few basic questions today with my Oehler 35p chronograph. Each experiment will be documented separately, but in general, all shots were from either a Glock 20, with a KKM comped 6†barrel or a stock witness 10mm. All shot stings over the chrono unless noted were 20 rnds. The chrono was at 10 feet from the muzzle. Sky conditions were overcast, 8 to 12 mph wind from the rear, 30.06 BP and humidity of 99% (it is Houston for cripes sake). Finally, all numbers are presented in the standard Oehler formation. High velocity (+), low velocity (-), extreme spread (e), mean (m), standard deviation (s).
First question. Does sorting brass really matter a lick?
The experiment: 50 shot strings with calculations after the fact since the 35P does not do math past 20 rnds. The input data, Mixed brass of 15 Federal, 20 Winchester and 15 Remington cases or 50 Starline once fired, Remington 180 grn JHP’s cci300 primers 10.5 grns of AA7, COL of 1.250, crimp to .4227, loaded on my Pro2000. All charges individually weighted.
The data :
Glock with Mixed 1206+, 1116-, 90e, 1165m, 24s
Glock with Starline 1188+, 1117-, 71e, 1156m, 18s.
Conclusion: It probably does not matter a lick if I sort the brass if I am using Federal, Winchester, Remington or Starline cases. It is probably a waste of time statistically.
2nd Question: Does hand weighing each charge and trickling it to exactly the weight matter over just letting the uniflow dump it?
The experiment: 20 shot strings with the witness, 10.2 grns of blue dot, Remington 180 grn JHP, cci300 primers, starline brass, col of 1.250, crimp of .4227.
The data:
Hand weighted 1105+, 1053-, 52e, 1083m, 13s
Pro2000 dumped 1097+, 1040-, 57e, 1073m, 16s.
The conclusion: It does not really matter with blue dot. I guess I should run the same experiment on all my powders just for fun.
3rd Question: How much difference in velocity between the two guns?
The experiment, 2 different 20 shot strings. 9.0 grns longshot, berry 180 grn TMJ, cci300 primers, col of 1.254, and crimp of .4218.
The data
9.0 grns longshot, berry 180 grn TMJ, starline brass, cci300 primers, col of 1.254, and crimp of .4218.
Glock 20 1285+, 1182-, 103e, 1240m, 25s.
Witness 1203+, 1161-, 42s, 1189m, 10s
11.0 grns of aa5, 135 grn berry tmj, starline brass, cci300 primers, col of 1.250, and crimp of .4221
glock 20 1422+, 1317-, 105e, 1346m, 26s
Witness 1336+, 1267-, 69e, 1308m, 20s.
Conclusion: The glock is a faster gun, but the witness is more consistent. I also noticed that while shooting it, the witness just seemed more accurate. Since I was just dumping rounds into the berm while chrono-ing, I could hit rocks with the witness, but the glock they just went a bit wild.
Final question, without consideration to the rest of the reload or guns, what is the most consistent powder?
The data, all from 20 shot strings:
800x 22s, 25s, 21s, 27s, 29s
aa7, 24s, 35s, 28s, 25s, 24s, 18s, 24s
aa5, 26s, 20s, 20s, 17s, 25s
blue dot, 29s, 21s, 16s, 13s, 27s
Longshot, 10s, 25s, 24s,
Unique, 21s, 25s,
Universal Clays, 45s, 38s
Power Pistol, 14s, 15s
(Yes I actually shot 908 rounds of 10mm today. My thumb is sore from reloading the mags!).
The conclusion: Well it’s more complex then a simple conclusion, but it looks like power pistol is the best, then probably blue dot and 800x. Most of these rounds were run in the Pro2000 as is. This means it is complete composite of how much the gun likes the load all the way back to how consistent I ran the press. I was surprised how poorly Universal clays did and AA7. AA7 is a very fine dumping powder so maybe it just is not working well with these loads. Interesting because it seems to work well and is reasonably accurate. I was also surprised at how much better unique is then universal clays.
I guess my path forward is that I will conduct more rigorous test using starline brass, cci primers, and rem 180 grn JHP’s. I will only vary the powder for every load and see what it does over the chrono.
Any thoughts or comments?
First question. Does sorting brass really matter a lick?
The experiment: 50 shot strings with calculations after the fact since the 35P does not do math past 20 rnds. The input data, Mixed brass of 15 Federal, 20 Winchester and 15 Remington cases or 50 Starline once fired, Remington 180 grn JHP’s cci300 primers 10.5 grns of AA7, COL of 1.250, crimp to .4227, loaded on my Pro2000. All charges individually weighted.
The data :
Glock with Mixed 1206+, 1116-, 90e, 1165m, 24s
Glock with Starline 1188+, 1117-, 71e, 1156m, 18s.
Conclusion: It probably does not matter a lick if I sort the brass if I am using Federal, Winchester, Remington or Starline cases. It is probably a waste of time statistically.
2nd Question: Does hand weighing each charge and trickling it to exactly the weight matter over just letting the uniflow dump it?
The experiment: 20 shot strings with the witness, 10.2 grns of blue dot, Remington 180 grn JHP, cci300 primers, starline brass, col of 1.250, crimp of .4227.
The data:
Hand weighted 1105+, 1053-, 52e, 1083m, 13s
Pro2000 dumped 1097+, 1040-, 57e, 1073m, 16s.
The conclusion: It does not really matter with blue dot. I guess I should run the same experiment on all my powders just for fun.
3rd Question: How much difference in velocity between the two guns?
The experiment, 2 different 20 shot strings. 9.0 grns longshot, berry 180 grn TMJ, cci300 primers, col of 1.254, and crimp of .4218.
The data
9.0 grns longshot, berry 180 grn TMJ, starline brass, cci300 primers, col of 1.254, and crimp of .4218.
Glock 20 1285+, 1182-, 103e, 1240m, 25s.
Witness 1203+, 1161-, 42s, 1189m, 10s
11.0 grns of aa5, 135 grn berry tmj, starline brass, cci300 primers, col of 1.250, and crimp of .4221
glock 20 1422+, 1317-, 105e, 1346m, 26s
Witness 1336+, 1267-, 69e, 1308m, 20s.
Conclusion: The glock is a faster gun, but the witness is more consistent. I also noticed that while shooting it, the witness just seemed more accurate. Since I was just dumping rounds into the berm while chrono-ing, I could hit rocks with the witness, but the glock they just went a bit wild.
Final question, without consideration to the rest of the reload or guns, what is the most consistent powder?
The data, all from 20 shot strings:
800x 22s, 25s, 21s, 27s, 29s
aa7, 24s, 35s, 28s, 25s, 24s, 18s, 24s
aa5, 26s, 20s, 20s, 17s, 25s
blue dot, 29s, 21s, 16s, 13s, 27s
Longshot, 10s, 25s, 24s,
Unique, 21s, 25s,
Universal Clays, 45s, 38s
Power Pistol, 14s, 15s
(Yes I actually shot 908 rounds of 10mm today. My thumb is sore from reloading the mags!).
The conclusion: Well it’s more complex then a simple conclusion, but it looks like power pistol is the best, then probably blue dot and 800x. Most of these rounds were run in the Pro2000 as is. This means it is complete composite of how much the gun likes the load all the way back to how consistent I ran the press. I was surprised how poorly Universal clays did and AA7. AA7 is a very fine dumping powder so maybe it just is not working well with these loads. Interesting because it seems to work well and is reasonably accurate. I was also surprised at how much better unique is then universal clays.
I guess my path forward is that I will conduct more rigorous test using starline brass, cci primers, and rem 180 grn JHP’s. I will only vary the powder for every load and see what it does over the chrono.
Any thoughts or comments?