Explain a Gun Purchasing Issue To Me

[Scott.M]

Really "hoops"?
Since ATF says I have to record the name and address of the shipper, I'm sure you have a more secure, reliable method of doing that? No, you don't. You think that scribbling "Scott M." on the corner of the box with some random address is just okey dokey. The sellers DL is an accepted form of ID for many purposes, writing a check, voting, picking up mail and thousands of other commercial transactions. Do you also pitch a fit and cry "You creating more hoops for me! It's too tough!".......no you don't. A copy of the shippers DL offers a small sense that the name and address are authentic and not a name and address picked at random.

Yeah, I'm being tough. If its too tough to take a cell phone pic of your DL you likely find life pretty difficult anyway.

If you don't like FFL's business policies I suggest you get your own FFL then proudly advertise "I'm not a low IQ FFL!!!"

My name and address provided. I can send you a copy of my DL, but you know it's my DL how? I have an FFL ace, I don't make up stuff that the Feds don't require just to make my job seem more important. YMMV

 

[Scott.M]

I was thinking specifically of a non FFL, private individual. Unless the person was just really nice or something, I can't imagine a seller taking a gun back once it's sold. Why would they? I've never bought or sold anything on Gunbroker. Does the money not change hands before the gun is shipped? Whenever I sell anything online, guns included, the item doesn't ship until I have the money in the clear.

Why would they not, assuming a 4473 hasn't already been completed on the receiving end?

 

[wiscoaster]

...assuming a 4473 hasn't already been completed on the receiving end?

That's an incorrect assumption. The 4473 isn't normally done until receipt of the gun by the receiving FFL with the customer in the store. I suppose they could do it ahead of time, but only if they know the serial number. And it would actually NOT be a good idea to do it ahead of time, just in case the buyer doesn't want to accept transfer.

 

[bearcreek]

Why would they not, assuming a 4473 hasn't already been completed on the receiving end?

Because it's a hassle that they have no reason to bother with (again, assuming they already have the money).

 

[George P]

I was thinking specifically of a non FFL, private individual. Unless the person was just really nice or something, I can't imagine a seller taking a gun back once it's sold. Why would they? I've never bought or sold anything on Gunbroker. Does the money not change hands before the gun is shipped? Whenever I sell anything online, guns included, the item doesn't ship until I have the money in the clear.

See my post right above yours

 

[Scott.M]

That's an incorrect assumption. The 4473 isn't normally done until receipt of the gun by the receiving FFL with the customer in the store. I suppose they could do it ahead of time, but only if they know the serial number. And it would actually NOT be a good idea to do it ahead of time, just in case the buyer doesn't want to accept transfer.

What?

If person on Gunbroker ships a gun to my FFL in another state. I go to get it, the stock is broken in 3 places. I don't accept it (hence I don't do a 4473 for said broken gun). I call the seller and say 'Hey, it broke' he says 'Sorry, ship it back'.

Since the firearm wasn't transferred to me, back it goes. Once it is transferred to me, you can't send it back to the individual that shipped it without going through an FFL at his end.

Savvy?

 

[bearcreek]

See my post right above yours

I saw that. Didn't realize you were talking about individuals not in the business. I've only bought and sold (online) on Armslist, not Gunbroker and so had never heard of that.

 

[George P]

Look at sites like www.gunsinternational.com - not an auction site and most have brick and mortar storefronts, but some are highly regarded individuals.

 

[bearcreek]

Look at sites like www.gunsinternational.com - not an auction site and most have brick and mortar storefronts, but some are highly regarded individuals.

Ok, now I'm back to not being sure if we're talking about the same thing. You mention store fronts. Are you talking about people who are in the firearm selling business or people who are just selling a gun or two from a private collection?

 

[George P]

Both

 

[wiscoaster]

What?....
Since the firearm wasn't transferred to me, back it goes. Once it is transferred to me, you can't send it back to the individual that shipped it without going through an FFL at his end.
Savvy?

Exactly. That's why I said you don't do the 4473 ahead of time. Read my post again: I MISREAD YOUR POST!!!!!

(sheesh ... it's been too long of a day ... slap me upside the head to wake me up next time, first, PLEASE!! )

 

[dogtown tom]

My name and address provided. I can send you a copy of my DL, but you know it's my DL how?

I don't.........but again, a copy of the shippers DL offers a small sense that the name and address are authentic and not a name and address picked at random.
Sure, it's possible that the seller has a completely fake drivers license and encloses that. But really? That's a lot of trouble to go through for shipping a gun.

I have an FFL ace,

Sorry, but I'm unimpressed.

I don't make up stuff that the Feds don't require just to make my job seem more important. YMMV

Well, again, I'm not making up "stuff". I'm not claiming that federal law requires a copy of the shippers DL, it clearly doesn't. Again, a DL is an easy, commonly used means to identify the shipper.

And ace, "just to make my job seem more important"? That's an astounding conclusion.....astounding because I struggle to believe that a grown man would come to that conclusion. Enclosing a DL inside the box makes my job EASIER. Often the box has incomplete or unreadable return address label.....or worse "UPS Store #1234 Somewhere, USA". And Yes, I know UPS Stores aren't supposed to ship firearms but it happens.


But since you are an FFL ace..............when you receive a firearm from another licensee do they include a copy of their FFL? It's not required by any Federal law.
Do you use that shippers FFL copy to record the acquisition?
Or do you go by the return address label on the box?

 

[Spats McGee]

I think this one qualifies as "asked and answered."