Explain the .380 trend...

[HexHead]

As to effectiveness of the .380 round, it was the larger of two rounds favored by the "trench sweepers" of the Great War....

http://www.americanrifleman.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=1540&cid=28

 

[huntsman]

The guns chambered for it are small, light, and easy to carry all day. The majority of the folks who want to carry a gun aren't willing...or possibly not able...to tote a 40-ounce major caliber pistol for 12-16 hours...and in truth, it's hard on backs and hips...not to mention clothing.

While the .380 does lack in power compared to a .45 ACP...it's a gun that can be there with a lot less effort...and the .22 derringer in your pocket beats the .44 Magnum that's at home in the safe should the demon single you out for a beat-down.

The other point is that people have successfully defended their lives with minor caliber and/or small handguns for well over a century. John Browning himself favored the 1902 Pocket Model in .32 ACP for personal defense...not the full-sized 1911...because it was easy to carry.

I also remember reading (I can't remember where) that JMB designed the .45ACP as a military cartridge and the .380 ACP was the civilian equivalent cartridge.

It seems that the military cartridges have become the excepted norm now in civilized society and citizen cartridges are looked down on, even though the chance of a civilian needing a gun in SD is still rare.

 

[Bobo]

I think the .380 has gained popularity recently for a few reasons that all happened almost together (within the last couple of years).

1) As the economy worsened more people felt the need to be armed, so a larger percentage of guns were sold for concealed carry than ever before (opposed to sporting and hunting purposes). The smaller .380's are really good for this purpose (as some say, "carried a lot and shot a little").
2) KelTec continually improved their P-3AT to point that they became mostly 100% reliable "out of the box".
3) Then Ruger copied the P-3AT and made it look a bit prettier. With the Ruger name they were hot almost immediately.
4) Then Kahr, Magnum Research, and Sig got into the game, offering even more options.
5) One of the biggest reasons is - At around this same time, the .380 round that was considered "marginal" as a threat stopper, was improved with many new and improved cartridge offerings that increased penetration and/or expansion over previously available ammo, and made the .380 a more viable defensive round than ever before.

This combination has made the .380 very popular recently (and ammo scarce).

Bobo

 

[theotherwaldo]

I think it's because more people are actually carrying a gun than ever before in American history.

.380s carry easy and are easy and fun to shoot. Very few of those that carry have ever had to use them in self defense, so they haven't personally experienced how poor they are in that respect.

And, what the heck, a small gun in the pocket beats a big gun in the safe.

 

[gwnorth]

4) Then Kahr, Magnum Research, and Sig got into the game, offering even more options.

SIG has been producing .380's (the P230, then since about 1997 or so, the P232) since the late 1970's. The P238 is new, true, and clearly is trying to leverage some of the fame of Colt.

 

[Bobo]

This is true, but I think the big upsurge in .380 sales is due mainly to the "pocket guns" not the slighly larger Bersas, Walthers, Sigs (that you mentioned), and other guns of that ilk.

 

[Waldo Pepper]

380 = 9 mm Kurtz as its been called since its introduction almost 100 years ago. Most none para military police in Europe carried the Kurtz because the civilians were not allowed to own military calibers and this gave that market standard dia bullet and weight in the beginning for ease of manufacturing. At close range such as in the home, the round has the same effect as the 9 mm and same size wound channel.

When in a small steel gun the recoil is not as bad as say the new PFT9 was that I had and was not that happy with because the heavy recoil in that very light pistol. The new Kel Tec 9 mm was almost like an Airweight J frame 357 magnum, but not quite.

I have wanted a 380 Llama micro 1911 for several years but never ran across one in good shape until today and I bought one like new that was a one owner model and like most people around here they tossed the box. Gave more then I wanted, but $200 OTD for it I guess wasn't that bad. This is the only 380 caliber pistol I ever wanted, except the Walther. Had one PPK and sold it to a cop friend and never could afford another, but the little Llama make up for that somewhat.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Given the unavailability of .380 ACP ammo, however, it makes you wonder how any manufacturer can come out with a .380 offering and expect it to sell well.

Funny that you mention that because even though there is ZERO 380 ammo around here the places around here still cant keep a KelTec or LCP or any other trendy 380 on a shelf. Having the gun seems to be more important than shooting it. Kind of makes me wonder how many of these yahoos (regular guys who are just too lazy to adjust their wardrobe and lifestyle to carrying the weapon they shoot the best) are carrying around a 380 pistol that they havent even shot yet or worse carrying it around unloaded.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

It is just too easy to find a .380 that fits in a pocket, packs comfortably, or is easy to shoot, for men and women. What's not to like? Many of us are obsessed with big bores, big guns, different guns, etc, but many buyers just want a small easy to use gun, and are even intimidated by anything bigger. Unfortunately, this all translates to a broader demand for ammo for these little guns, making the owners of same a little frustrated.

 

[Dr_2_B]

I'm still not real wild about the 380 and I believe part of the trend is the confluence of several manufacturers putting out a new line of pistols at the same time. But I do believe the recent developments in hollowpoint design is a real plus for that round. It partially offsets what I believe is the overgrown people trend during the last 25 years or so. It just doesn't offset it enough for me.

 

[m2steven]

I think the .380 inspires confidence when shot. It's low recoil, relatively high impact cartridge, and small size make it very confidently carried. I love shooting mine, and really enjoy carrying it around. I feel it's a great compromise between the "blow it clean off" and "bounce off" options out there.

Also, there are probably a lot of enthusiasts who have a 380 you'd never hear about until recently when ammo became difficult to find. Now everyone is out of the woodwork with their 380 no ammo stories.

But mainly, it's a good cartridge in a great package.

 

[skoro]

Ok, how about this...Why would a person chose a .380 over a similar size gun in 9mm or .40?

I know I certainly wouldn't.

The harsh reality is that there are no pistols in 9mm or 40 that anywhere close to the size and weight of my P3AT. I carry a 38 snub or my PF-9 when I can. When I can't, the P3AT goes with me. And in the Texas summer, that P3AT sees a lot of duty.

 

[skoro]

Explain the .380 trend

Doesn't seem at all mysterious to me.

1. more states allowing concealed carry permits
2. more compact, lightweight pistols on the market in that caliber
3. many licensees find pocket carry practical and convenient

 

[Mad Magyar]

Basically, the nation is getting fat & lazy and prefer "comfort" rather than lugging & trying to conceal larger firearms. Pistoleros are thumbing their nose at Clint Smith's quote about your pistol "should be comforting; not comfortable"!... Deep down, all of us that carry a .380, in my case a PPK, know that bigger is better; but fall in the trap of convenience....Of course, with the exception of the constant 1911's being hailed and reviewed in the gun rags; the .380 is probably 2nd in advertising persuation....

 

[1911Tuner]

Basically, the nation is getting fat & lazy and prefer "comfort" rather than lugging & trying to conceal larger firearms

And it could be that many simply aren't able to carry a larger gun for reasons other than comfort. Let's try to avoid the slippery slope with blanket statements. Each person has his/her own reasons for the arms that they choose.

 

[33-805]

Well, a point that has been missed here is a simple one. The 380, or 32, or 38 that is small, light and easy to carry allows the owner to follow the all-important first rule of gunfighting: Have a gun.

Do I prefer bigger calibers? Yes. Do I carry bigger calibers on a daily basis? Yes. Would I rather have a 380 with a good JHP load than a sharp stick in a fight? Yes.

The only 380 I own is regularly carried as a backup to a 40 or a 45. Not a primary gun, but if the other breaks or is lost or runs dry, that 380 could be a real comfort. When I teach concealed carry classes, the biggest question I get is "What's the best gun?" My standard answer is the best gun is the one you will carry religiously. Even a 25 in your pocket is preferable to that sweet 1911 that hangs in your safe because it's too uncomfortable to carry. Do I recommend 25s? No. But remember that not everyone out there carrying a gun has the same concerns on stopping power as a lot of us do, even if they should.

 

[HexHead]

I know I certainly wouldn't.

The harsh reality is that there are no pistols in 9mm or 40 that anywhere close to the size and weight of my P3AT. I carry a 38 snub or my PF-9 when I can. When I can't, the P3AT goes with me. And in the Texas summer, that P3AT sees a lot of duty.

Rohrbaugh R9.

Though I understand they are very unpleasant to shoot.

 

[MCgunner]

I think the Rohrbaugh is something like 24 ounces. The LCP and P3AT is 9 ounces and they're smaller than a Rohrbaugh. The only thing significantly smaller and more compact is an NAA mini revolver.

There's hardly ever a situation that I can't carry my.38 or KT P11 in a pocket, though. I don't have an LCP....yet. I'd probably rarely carry it if I had one, even in Texas. I choose my pants for their pockets.

 

[SwampWolf]

Let's try to avoid the slippery slope with blanket statements. Each person has his/her own reasons for the arms that they choose.

This really needed to be said! Too many people seem to have a need to denigrate other people's choices of firearms apparently in an effort to inflate their own sense of self-importance. Just because somebody doesn't agree with another person's reasons for carrying a particular firearm doesn't mean they are "lazy", "inexperienced" or a "yahoo." As 1911Tuner says, there are lots of different reasons why somebody might select a different firearm than somebody else would- and there's no good reason for them to be demeaned by self-appointed "experts" for exercising their options.

 

[Girodin]

I just would like to here some reasons for carrying that when a J-frame .357 is available, as are small 9mm and .40 weapons. I'm open to all different reasons, I would just like to hear some of them. Thanks.

The rise in the popularity of small .380s seems to be strongly correlated to the expansion of concealed carry rights and the rise in popularity of concealed carry. Why are they more common than a J frame .357 or one of the few truly pocketable 9mms? If I were to hypothesize I would guess that it was a matter of $$$$.

A Rohrbaugh is $1k+. A PM9 is $600+. A lightweight J frame .357 is around $700 (and a handful for many shooters).

A tiny LCP/P3AT is not only hundreds of dollars cheaper it is is tiny, smaller than all of the above and can be easily carried all the time.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Basically, the nation is getting fat & lazy and prefer "comfort" rather than lugging & trying to conceal larger firearms

My attempt to be facetious evidently backfired.... However, I stand by my main points...

 

[JR47]

A lot of the .357 magnum J-frame types are much too punishing to be fired enough to use the power. When a person uses a J-frame, they need to practice enough to be proficient. Too many people who buy a tiny .357 will never shoot it with those loads, until they need to. I seem to remember when police were criticized for qualifying with .38s, and carrying .357s, in duty-sized guns.

As far as people being too fat, too lazy, or whatever other simplistic term one wishes to use, please remember. Different geographical locations require different modes of dress. Different states have varying laws as to what determines brandishing, as well. Then, there are a lot of people who cannot just invest hundreds of dollars in a gun, holster, and belt, and still be willing to throw away their clothing, and buy more "gun friendly" replacements. They do not intend to become Wyatt Earp, or G.I. Joe, saving the world from evil. They just want to exercise their Second Amendment Rights, I believe, in many cases. Their most likely scenario is a car-jacking attempt, or a one-on-one hold-up. Even there, most true practioners of CCW recommend having a "fake wallet" or "fake roll", in the case of hold-up. In the face of an already drawn gun, car-jackers should get the car.

Unless you're an LEO, or defending yourself and family from something actively violent, most experts advise you to leave the area, not offer a fight.

The most powerful weapon that you can carry is between your ears. It never runs out of ammo, but can suffer a FTF if you aren't aware. That's the one weapon that should be as powerful as you can get. The choice of guns pales next to it.

 

[sokygunner]

Personally, I only carry a .380 as a backup on occasion, usually my backup is something like a .357mag or small auto in 9mm, .40, or .45acp. I am an extreme case though. I will put this out there, I have been wearing a sidearm on my belt as part of my job for several years, as well as other equipment. My point is that I am used to the weight of a full size automatic being on me all the time. Most people aren't used to this sort of thing and size and weight is a big factor, this is understandable. As it has been said by someone else in this thread, a lot of people in other countries and in this country in the past have shot and killed a lot of people with a small caliber weapon. Given the progress in the ammunition manufacturing process and materials a box of .45acp like remington UMC hollow point, which is not all that impressive, is lightyears ahead of some of the best ammo produced 60 years ago when .45acp made its name as a "manstopper" during a rather violent war. This would stand to reason that a hot .380 load like a gold dot or a powerball would probably do a significant amount of damage compared to an old 9mm round from years gone by. Ammo has come a long way and people were shot and killed with weaker loads with lesser projectiles. I say carry a .380 if you want. I don't but thats because I'm used to large pistols and like them, I'd rather have a .380 than nothing.

 

[almtiba]

Only because it's the "biggest pistol round" I'm allowed to carry.
And, after carrying the same Beretta 84 for more than 10 years, I got used to it :^)

Oh... I live in Brazil...

Regards,

Andre Tiba

 

[robphillips]

if that was their thinking, I believe they would have jumped into a 1911 platform.