Explain this Strange phenomenon with Remington .22 shorts

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AngryBaker

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I had a strange occurrence at the range today. I am looking for some possible explanations.

Today me and my dad decided it was a nice day for some plinking nothing too ambitious, just shooting some steel and a little paper punching. I was using a Remington Target Master single shot rifle. I decided that I was going to shoot a little steel using .22 shorts (I was using Remington "Golden Bullets" 29gr .22 short the target was at 45 yards).

I fired my first shot, the round struck the target just as it should an the steel target reacted just as it normally does. I loaded a second round and fired it also hit the target as soon as I heard the round strike the target, my dad said "ouch" I looked over and he was brushing his neck off he said watch where your brass is going (he thought I was firing my 10/22. I said I wasn't I got up and walked over to look at his neck I noticed he was bleeding, the bleeding was not severe but enough to be noticed.

I handed him a wet rag and he took care of the minor injury, we both agreed a piece of jacket had come back from the target, this had never happened before with .22Lr even with high velocity ammo. After clearing our weapons I proceeded to walk up to the target and noticed something weird. The steel target was dimpled exactly where I had placed the rounds on 2 different targets.

DSCN0521-1.jpg

DSCN0520-2.jpg

The dimples the rounds caused where about 2mm deep caused by .22 shorts (29gr Remington "Golden Bullets" .22shorts) I had previously fired at least 100 rounds at that same target on the same day and probably 500 rounds on those targets in the time I have had them. (Mostly WWB and Federal bulk pack ammo).

DSCN0525-1.jpg
These are the rounds in question.

This has never happened before I have fired many different types of rounds at these targets including but not limited to CCI Stingers, CCI velocitors, WWB 40gr HP .22lr, Federal bulk pack HP, CCI .22 shorts, Remington "Golden Bullets" 40 gr HP .22LR and I never had either the target damaged or jacket material reflected at me or anyone else. I also am fortunate enough to have pictures of jacket material from the round in question They were stuck in my dad's neck. :what:

DSCN0529-1.jpg

The two rounds I fired that day were Remington "Golden Bullets" 29gr .22 short (905 FPS) and WWB .22LR (1280 FPS)


I am glad nothing bad happened I thank god we all had our safety glasses on and nothing came back and hit someone in the eye. The speed of the jacketed material that came back could have easily taken out an eye and would have done permanent damage.

First of all I just wanted to post this as a heads up to be careful with these rounds in question for some reason these seem to dimple targets rated for .22 LR

Second of all I am wondering if anyone can provide an explanation for why either of these things occurred how can a round that weighs less and travels significantly slower dimple steel? While the faster heavier rounds simply splatters.

I feel truly lucky nothing serious happened, it was a real wake up call to make sure that I and every one around me is wearing eye protection.
 
I read somewhere once that lower velocity rounds ( especially lead rounds ) tend to ricochet more while still being fully intact, where as higher velocity and jacketed rounds tend to shatter and rip themselves apart on contact. The basic theory was that the transfer of energy between the steel and the projectile was so immense in some cases that it would just shatter into very small pieces and travel outward, but in other cases the transfer of energy would be small enough to just send the projectile backward at high speed while still being fully ( or mostly ) intact.

So my guess would be ( especially given the size of the casing fragments ) that the transfer of energy was just low enough to send them flying back instead of breaking up into smaller pieces.
 
45 yards?

I can see 45 feet---but yards? That had to be a one in a million occurance.

Good reason to always wear eye protection.
 
The .22 Short did not burn a hole like that in a steel plate.

What you did was hit a hole already there made by a high-velocity center-fire caliber.

There is another hole that has been painted over in the second photo.
Your .22 Short only hit another one that was already there and blew the orange paint out of it.

rc
 
RC got it, you can see where the bullet knocked the paint off just above it. The lead removed the paint from an old ding from a .22WMR or something similar.

40 yards with a short, and you got hit? that is quite strange. You should go buy a lottery ticket. A .22 short is barely moving at 40 yards!
 
Right on rc...also it is "My dad and I", not "me and my dad". It never hurts to help a young person with grammar. :D
 
The .22 Short did not burn a hole like that in a steel plate.

What you did was hit a hole already there made by a high-velocity center-fire caliber.

There is another hole that has been painted over in the second photo.
Your .22 Short only hit another one that was already there and blew the orange paint out of it.
Click to expand...
Yep!

And .22 Short, Long and Long Rifle bullets aren't jacketed. They are typically pure lead with either a wax-based lubricant, a copper wash of some sort, or both.
 
Never shoot at a steel plate with dimples like those. A dimple will turn a bullet right back at you. Lucky it was just a 22 short. A friend of mine caught a .45 colt in the forehead that cut him open and left a huge knot and it was just a glancing blow.
 
Thanks for the quick responses. I just wanted to clarify some things, the dimples that were previously painted over were from a 17gr .17 HMR at 100 yards. The target said rated for most rimfire cartridges, obviously not including the .17 HMR.

I find it extremely unlikely that I fired two rounds and hit 2 indents at 45 yards (I am not that good yet:D) I distinctly remember those indents not being there before I fired. I also remember that on the target (1st picture) there were no dimples before that day.

I may be heading back to the range today and am willing to try it again on a target that I know has no previous damage and of course with the proper safety equipment.

@HGUNHNTR I am always happy to get a grammar lesson even on the weekends.
 
Cratered steel is notorious for throwing lead fragments back on the shooter. Shoot only smooth steel targets and avoid high velocity rifle rounds, especially FMJ military surpluss as they will ruin steel plates.
 
Seems to me there may be something else going on. I'm looking at the fragments in the last picture and wondering if they could make a 45 yard journey through the air even if they started at supersonic velocity. I'd expect them to loose speed and drop within 15-20 yards.

What was your dad shooting? Was anyone else shooting at the time? Could someone else have been shooting at your plates?
 
I have spent the last 13 years shooting painted steel plates in Cowboy Action Shooting competitions. I also have used FMJ/JHP rounds on falling plates for other sports. I have seen targets made from everything from cheap salvaged soft boiler-plate to rifle-grade armor plate.

There is no way a .22 short made those dents at .45 yards in anything remotely considered "steel". (Assuming you could not bend it barehanded and easily, and have it stay that way.)

Each plate shows a "dished" crater and a bullet splash that struck approximately on the crater rim. One was mostly outside the rim and one looks to be quite on it. The splashes appear much larger than a .22 inches, suggesting significant bullet upset/fragmentation on impact. (Assumes the plates are not tiny, and contrasting with the slpash identified as .22 LR)

I have seen all sorts of fragments bounce-back from plates struck by all-lead bullets and jacketed bullets. Your experience is easily in the "likely" category with a moderate/low velocity jacketed/plated bullet fragmenting on an uneven-surface plate.

The reason NRA hunter pistol matches moved the formerly-25 yard chickens back to 40 yards is due to excessive splash-back from cratered targets.
 
I ain't buying those fragments in the picture came off any brand of .22 RF ammo.

As CraigC said in post #9, all .22 RF bullets are made out of pure lead.
Or else the recent lead-free innovation, sintered powdered metal.
Neither bullet type has a copper jacket.

rc
 
Too much jacket material for a 22 short. Golden bullets are copper washed.
 
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