Expressing yourself obscenely

[spacemanspiff]

i think this thread needs to be 'stickyfied'.

seen more asterisks used the last few days than an all ages audience should be exposed to.

 

[Oleg Volk]

Okey. Will float it for a while...maybe it will come handy for the new members.

 

[VaughnT]

I'm guilty and apologize to all. Vulgarity in writing, where you have all the time in the world to edit yourself, only goes to show a streak of laziness too wide to jump or a lack of intellect too deep to plumb.

Again, I'm guilty and offer my apologies. I will do my level best to act in a manner that sits flush with the rules I agreed to when I joined this forum.

 

[Country Boy]

He (and many members like myself) are just asking you to debate like ADULTS.

'bout sums it up. Lets take the high road in our discussions.

Our late curriculum coordinator had a favorite saying: Profanity is the result of a feeble mind trying to express itself in a forceful way.

 

[tex_n_cal]

Good points.

As I once said at TFL...I can (and do) swear like a drunk sailor, when no one sensitive is around.

When I write though, I am leaving a creation behind...hopefully something of value. Something that someone might theoretically enjoy reading a thousand years from now.

I try to write well, and use the language well. I am putting my name to it, and I am proud of it.

Patrick

 

[Sprig]

This is what DRJONES said,

Honestly, Oleg isn't saying "Don't say this or that" or limiting you in any way!Honestly, Oleg isn't saying "Don't say this or that" or limiting you in any way!
He (and many members like myself) are just asking you to debate like ADULTS.
No more, no less.
There are plenty ways to get your point across without rough language.

Sometimes, as ADULTS, an issue is SO intense that to seperate it from normal conversation we elevate it by increasing our volume or increasing the impact of the words we use.

Sometimes this includes using language that isn't always PC.

While I will try not to be banned here, I still feel that I have the responsibility to use language that suits the discussion at hand.

It would be a true shame to censor everything here. Some very important people have said "obsene" things becasuse they had the passion to impact change.

Yes, debate like adults, and keep foul language out of personal attacks, but when something is truely evil and hidious, perhaps the obsene words are the only way to accurately describe the obsene happenings in this world.

Or, maybe we could all just have our hearts cut out, and just talk like Barney the purple dragon so we would never offend anyone.

"I" want to hear the unedited "passion" of voice on this forum when it relates to the issues at hand. Personal attacks in a vulgar manner I can do without. THAT is the disctintion I would like to be seen held to.

Sprig

 

[Leatherneck]

A couple of the posters I enjoyed (and respected) most on both TFL and THR rarely if ever use profanity or vulgarity. Yet their messages come across loud and clear. And on the rare occasion I did read something profane or vulgar from one of them, the impact was huge! But in general, the more coarse language one uses, the smaller the impact.

TC
TFL Survivor

 

[Atticus]

There is no such thing as "a little out of control". I've seen the behaviour of members at excellent boards such as AR15.com and the Fal Files sink to sickeningly low standards at times, but I always found TFL to be well moderated. I'm glad to see the same rules here. Too many gun board members assume that their fellow readers/users are a bunch of tough guys, when in fact there are people of all ages and walks of life aboard. Why alienate anyone? We need everyone.

 

[Drjones]

Sprig:

Ditto leatherneck.

Those whose opinions I respect most are those who NEVER even HINT at profanity.

Not that I never use profanity in my personal life (especially around friends ) but I change my vocabulary when in public.

Furthermore, what Oleg is requesting is NOT "censorship."

It is exactly the same as if he invited you into his home and asked you to please not swear/drink/smoke.

THR is HIS HOME, so its HIS RULES.

 

[TracerSpies]

I'm new here and I appreciate the forum. I do respect the owner's right to request "appropriate" language. However, if you're really concerned about the lurking observers looking for ammo to use against us honest gun folks, address the spelling and grammar nightmares! Talk about inviting Brady into your trailer park!

 

[hansolo]

Negative conotation: Trailer Park

I do not brag about having a college education. I do not think less of someone who does not. I agree to abide by the request to not use "rough" language, but I'll not stand idly by and be denigrated because I choose to live in a Mobile Home Park; they're not all like the Bad Boys' homes on "Cops."

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to bail my wife out of the slammer for backing her '76 Trans Am over the neighbor's Pit Bull.

 

[Redlg155]

I appreciate the efforts of the mods and the members to keep this place a great place to be. I can let my family browse here with me and not worry about serious profanities.

I can't let them do that in other forums.

Heck..I work at a prison when I'm not here. I would hate to come here and get the same stuff.

Good Shooting
Red

 

[Sprig]

Hello Drjones,

Let me try to clarify?

Furthermore, what Oleg is requesting is NOT "censorship."
It is exactly the same as if he invited you into his home and asked you to please not swear/drink/smoke.

But, while being there helping instal that new gun safe, it manages to squash your little toe on your left foot and you yell "!@#%!!!" and he promptly throws you out for your bad language.

Or, while being there, a bad guy tries to steal his TV set and you waste him with your CCW and afterwards you state, "You came to the wrong house you sorry "!@@#%!" and Oleg throws you out because of your bad language.

MOST of the "bad words" can be heard on any current R- rated film. I would rather see and hear the REAL passion behind the voice in the text instead of not, because it was censored just becasue we are "better then that".

In fact, a "normal" amount of moderation in this regard may make us seem more reasonable and more like a peer instead of presenting a "superior intellect" with a higher "moral standard" that may drive the average American away from this board.

All I am trying to point out is that sometimes it is good thing to act in a NORMAL manner that is full of passion that may not always P.C.

...???

Sprig

 

[Sprig]

REALLY clarify

Hello All,

Here it is, in its glory, or perhaps shame, EXACTLY why I think this board should embrace the 1st admentment, as well as the 2nd.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8752

The 2nd incident was today as a customer I was doing some work for who is probably worth several million dollars was expressing his displeasure with current actions in many of the same areas the socialists in class where. But his comments and suggestions are not fit for this board.

WHY!!!???

ALWAYS the comments of our peers MUST be fit for this board.

"I" WANT to know what was said. THR has the RESPONSIBILITY to reprint what our peers think, even if the language is outside the normal code of conduct that we ourselves as members agree to. It is not OUR language, and yet we must stand strong with integrity such that we can acurately report the intense and difficult issues that we post; and not feel shamed in including the languge used by others. To allow ourselves to remain quiet so we can retain the privilege to post here is NOT showing personal integrity.

There IS a difference between NOT allowing rude personal attacks, and conveying a strong message in the manner of our peers.

One is holding to polite standards, the other is censorship.

Sprig

 

[Oleg Volk]

THR has the RESPONSIBILITY to reprint what our peers think, even if the language is outside the normal code of conduct that we ourselves as members agree to.

If the comments are germain to the discussion and the exact phrasing is important, then go ahead and quote exactly. Know that the benefit from the exact quotation may be overshadowed by the damage from the reaction of the readers.

I forget who said it (Heinlein, meybe?), that an occasional oaths lightens the heart but it won't improve the cards or make the wind favorable. I don't mind calling the likes of Bill Clinton or Joeffrey Dahmer exactly the words which first come to mind, but let me argue for some creativity on the condemnations:

- same word or phrase used over and over lose impact for the regulars of this forum, yet still scandalize the lurkers

- note how C.R.Sam or Art Eatman can express loathing of the nastiest degree with a few well-picked words, none of which are related to the *#*% or **#$

In conclusion, I would expect it reasonable for a person to have some choice comments in the field, under stress...but in a circle of friends, at a discussion, dropping something on your foot or overturning a glass of wine ought not merit much more than a correction of the problem without undue attention to it. Appropriate language to the situation, not because what we define as "obscene" is better or worse than any other terms, but because respecful behavior is designed to avoid offending any friendlies inasmuch as possible.

Other forums have drawn the line in different places, so we can always go to another site (The Firing Range, for example, or glocktalk.com , or ar15.com and get the oaths off your chest there. Great thing about the variety of jurisdictions in America and on the web is that folks who dislike regulations or culture of a particular area can go elsewhere. I am not eager to drive anyone away, but I recognize that some aspects of THR aren't meeting with everyone's approval...yet we can only change THR so far before it loses the sight of the original mission. That mission is the introduction of new folks to our way of thinking, and -- incidentally -- tech and moral support for those who are already "us".

 

[Mr. James]

Dear Readers,

In keeping with Oleg's last post, may I recommend to you a splendidly useful little book, Shakespeare's Insults: Educating Your Wit by Wayne F. Hill and Cynthia J. Ottchen (Mainsail Press, 1991)? Just a small sample of its delights:

"Thou clay-brained guts, thou knotty-pated fool, thou whoreson obscene greasy tallow-catch!"

"[You] sanguine coward, [you] bed-presser, [you] horse-back-breaker, [you] huge hill of fish!"

"How now, my sweet creature of bombast?"

"Why dost thou converse with that trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that roasted Manningtree ox with the pudding in his belly, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?"

"[You are] a wretch whose natural gifts are poor."

"Henceforth be never number'd among men!"

 

[Calamity Jane]

Mr. James, I have long been a fan of Shakespearean insults. In addition to the book you mentioned, here's a web site that's a random Shakespearean Insult Generator:

http://www.pangloss.com/seidel/Shaker/

 

[TracerSpies]

Time for me to go back to the 1911forum! Bye.

 

[joeoim]

Oleg: I will respect your request and see no problem expressing myself without profanity.
This forum. like TFL has been a wealth of information for me.
I rarely see the rude posts to a newbys questions that are too common on a couple others I frequent.
I realize we have several ladies and young gun enthusiests (SP) here and I wouldn't want to insult someone who didn't deserve it.
Joe

 

[TheeBadOne]

Profanity is the crutch of the ignorant

 

[LoneStranger]

I had a grandfather who was a muleskinner in the Field Artillery before the Great War. As such he had an extensive vocabulary. I was always told though that when talking about others, nonmule types recognized by lack of four legs and long tails, you should always "Discuss them" and not "Cuss them." The better your vocabulary and your use of it the better your discussion.

The problem comes in when you move off this board. Your dealing with others who lack the basic intelligence and dignity of mules and your words will quickly go over their heads. Then when you come back to this board you find yourself hobbled by a lack of practice.

 

[nemesis]

Use of offensive terms ... saw the term "wetback" used this week.

Why.....is this offensive? Here, on the banks of the Rio Grande; local Spanish-speaking people commonly refer to illegal crossers as "mojados", which translates as "wet ones". I have been told by many of the people that I know that they arrived here as mojados and they aren't ashamed of how they got here or the word they used to describe themselves.

Aren't we taking liberal shame too far when a term used by people to refer to themselves is "offensive" when used by us?

How do you feel about "Rio Grande International Swimming Team"?

 

[Oleg Volk]

Lots of potential for trouble when switching languages. Simple example: in Russian, "black" is rude and "negro" is polite...in English, it is just about the opposite. The key isn't never giving offense, which is nearly impossible, but never giving offense intentionally. If offense is given inadvertantly, reasonable people would get over it.

 

[Sprig]

Hello Oleg,

Sorry for the delay in reply; upgraded the computer.

I have great respect for you and what you have done here. I also don't dissagree with your concerns that you stated. However,

"I" want to hear the unedited "passion" of voice on this forum when it relates to the issues at hand. Personal attacks in a vulgar manner I can do without. THAT is the disctintion I would like to be seen held to.

I have seen SEVERAL threads already that contain the text similar to what I quoted earlier,

But his comments and suggestions are not fit for this board.

It appears I will have to ask the next question outright.

Which is better ?
1) NOT telling the story because the politcal government forbids it.
2)NOT telling the story because it uses language that isn't quite to the standards of "the high road".

It seems to me, that important information is censored; in one case because it its "forbidden", and in the other because "it isn't polite enough".

I would like to see caution exercised in the restricting of freedom of speach, because there ARE stories with QUALITY information ALREADY not being told here.

I would like to see this forum embrace the First, as well as the Second, WITHOUT turning this into a forum that I won't let my kids read.

There is a thin line between the differences. I hope I have been clear enough to present them clearly enough that you understand my intentions.

I am looking forward to seeing how THR grows through its adolescence and matures into a forum that outlasts us all.

Sprig

 

[spacemanspiff]

this issue isnt about the First Amendment, its about setting a high standard for others to admire and follow.

my roommate is a guy who uses the "eff" word at least once per sentence, without even thinking about it. i dont want to hear swear words used as adjectives. i swear when the situation calls for it. and simple conversations dont call for it, IMNSHO.
i stub my toe, yeah i'm going to utter a few swears.
but i try not to if its just to be inflammatory.