Extremely interesting (and sobering) report

[Gouranga]

BYW, I sent this link off to my sisters dept, they are printing it up for the rest of the force. They found it a very good read.

 

[valorius]

BYW, I sent this link off to my sisters dept, they are printing it up for the rest of the force. They found it a very good read.

Wow, that's great! Hopefully the info in here is useful to them. I know i am re-evaluating my own personal views after reading it.

The thought of going head to head against someone with 5 firefights under their belt and an absolute willingness to kill without hesitation is not a pleasant one.

 

[Gouranga]

Wow, that's great! Hopefully the info in here is useful to them. I know i am re-evaluating my own personal views after reading it.

The thought of going head to head against someone with 5 firefights under their belt and an absolute willingness to kill without hesitation is not a pleasant one.

I guess the key is in terms of S&T, you need to find a balance in where you are prepared (if that is possible) for the uuber ganstas described in this report, while not completely overestimating the standard run of the mill BG you would run into as a citizen.

A cop would be more likely to run into these types. They would actually look for them. As a citizen, I think I would be more driven to avoid locations and situations in which I would run into these types in a place/time where they would be more likely to feel the need to start gunning down folks.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The thought of going head to head against someone with 5 firefights under their belt and an absolute willingness to kill without hesitation is not a pleasant one.

Most cops never fire their guns at another living human being. With 21 years on Dallas PD and running what were called at the time, "drug raids," my pop never fired his. At the North Hollywood bank robbery, there was a motorcycle cop who was 3 months shy of retirement and had never fired his gun at another person before that incident and fired all 60 something rounds he had. Several cops at that incident fired their guns for the first time in battle.

As noted, bad guys don't really care if their shots hit bystanders or not, but cops do. Valorious' quote hints at probably being hesitant about a willingness to fire on and/or kill another human being and so again goes the advantage to the bad guys. I have had several police instructors tell me that their plan is to go home at the end of every evening/shift. They plan to have a future. For a lot of bad guys, going home alive is an option, not a requirement and if they do manage to go home after a glorious battle with the cops, so much the better. Once again, the advantage goes to the bad guys who don't care if they have a future or not.

There was an episode of Detroit SWAT that caused me to laugh and laugh. The SWAT team was serving a drug warrant on a house. Upon starting to make entry, the occupant fired shots that penetrated the wall around the door and the door and the SWAT team retreated and called in the real SWAT team. It seems the drug SWAT team, despite all their gear and such, wasn't equipped to handle bad guys who were willing to shoot at them and so they had to called in a SWAT team that was.

 

[Old Guy]

Depending on the particular area, City or Town and job description, Police Officers tend to be a wee bit more inclined to get into shootings, with gun toting gang bangers than we, the CCW groups are.

Speaking for myself, in a normal days activity, going to the grocery store, filling up the Jeep, etc. With my Wife 90% of the time (retired, both) gang bangers, trained, armed, are not in the places we go to.

But? Never say never, that is why we carry concealed, for a maybe situation to become real, don't take much, wrong place, wrong time.

Be aware of your location, and who is sharing that location with you, always.

Be safe.

 

[gun guy]

I don't think lasers will help much. I had to coach some veteran detectives thru their yearly requals. They got a Glock 19, the mag in the weapon +1 in the pipe, and 2 spare hi cap mags. The challenge, score 40 points, in slow fire, on a standard bad guy sil, at a range of 7 meters. The center ring 10pts, 9 and so on. If you missed the whole outline, but hit the white that still counted for 1 pt. Thats roughly a box of ammo, to hit the target, at easy rock throwing distance. Most were able to qualify with only a mag and a half. Roughly 30 rounds. Some took every round to squeak by. These were detectives, with alot of time on the force, i can only imagine how good the rookies are.

 

[valorius]

As noted, bad guys don't really care if their shots hit bystanders or not, but cops do. Valorious' quote hints at probably being hesitant about a willingness to fire on and/or kill another human being and so again goes the advantage to the bad guys.

I'd rather not kill anyone at all, but given the choice of me or them, it's an easy choice.

Unfortunately, i am constrained by the laws of lethal force, which a criminal isn't. That gives him an immediate and significant edge.

I don't think lasers will help much. I had to coach some veteran detectives thru their yearly requals. They got a Glock 19, the mag in the weapon +1 in the pipe, and 2 spare hi cap mags. The challenge, score 40 points, in slow fire, on a standard bad guy sil, at a range of 7 meters. The center ring 10pts, 9 and so on. If you missed the whole outline, but hit the white that still counted for 1 pt. Thats roughly a box of ammo, to hit the target, at easy rock throwing distance. Most were able to qualify with only a mag and a half. Roughly 30 rounds. Some took every round to squeak by. These were detectives, with alot of time on the force, i can only imagine how good the rookies are.

This will be the most famous target on the forum if i keep posting it, i guess....but the laser really helps on the LCP.

This is 25ft off-hand accuracy using duty grade Federal Hydrashok ammo:

I won't dispute that cops are often poorly trained with firearms, and are bad shots.

I am not.

I could easily pass that qualification test with a single magazine from my LCP at that range. (based on your scoring system, i just shot a 79, 1 pt from perfect).