Eye contact, yes or no?

[Horsesense]

There is a school of thought that says "don’t make eye contact with potential BG's" and I'm wondering how many agree with it.

I have never done it that away and making eye contact with potential BG's has served me well.
I spent my youth as the "odd man out", so to speak, I was the hillbilly going to public school in Cleveland OH and then the city boy going to school in SE Kentucky then the pool hustler (who never did, and still don’t, drink) in bars from FL to OH and then I worked in public housing for 16 years.

I owe my good luck first and foremost to the grace of God, because as I look back and consider the places and things I have done, no one is that lucky and secondly to lessons learned early on, on how to get by. Following are some things I have picked up on and I post them in hopes of provoking others to post things that have worked for them.

1. Make eye contact, but don’t stare them down. The attitude is; yah, I see you, I could be your best friend or your worst nightmare but I would rather we don’t find out. Then look away, as if you are expecting to see someone you know.

2. Eye level, if you are approached and are seated, stand or ask them to have a seat. Giving someone elevation is a show of weakness. In most cases, but not all, don’t seek to gain elevation, as this is a show of aggression.

3. If you are being aggressively approached, remember #2, don’t look around, you should have already done that. Do show the palms of your hands. I don’t know why but showing your palms (sort of like you were about to catch a basketball), has a way of calming down an aggressor AND at the same time you are in a position to defend OR strike.

4. Speak clearly in an even tone and give a "soft answer" if you can at all. A soft answer is something like "my bad" or "sorry about that". A soft answer turns away wrath, that is to say if someone perceives that you have wronged them, meeting them with meekness (not weakness) will go along way towards avoiding trouble. On the other hand if someone who is a predator is approaching you, meet them with strong words like "BACK OFF" and get elevation on them as in #2. I never cuss.

5. Take control, this one is more for a work setting but its pretty cool. The next time someone looses their cool and wants to get in your face, meet them at eye level, show your palms and say "have a seat" or "come in" or "SLOW down" then offer them a stick of gum or something. Then, as soon as they have complied, take further control by saying something like "ok, in one sentence tell me what the problem is and what you suggest we do about it"

6. be a student of human nature

These are things that work for me, what about you?

 

[13xx]

thankfully (knock on wood) i have yet to have the pleasure in meeting with a BG but i do work for a chain resteraunt and one thing they reiterate in crime prevention training is to make eye contact with everyone that comes in the place and also to greet them. apperantly in studies they have done eye contact and being pointed out by saying hello to them as soon as they walk in deters them in the fact they you have seen them and know of their presence. anyone that comes in and i percieve as a pontential BG to me i will go out of my way to go up and chat with them until their food is ready. another tactic i have used that seems to "scare off" potentials is to make note of what kind of car they are in and strike up a convo about it.( i am a bit of a car nut so it helps to be able to know specifics about various cars)

basically if you let them know your see them and they see you see them it "supposed" to deter them if they were planning on robbing you since they could more easily go rob someone who is not paying any attention

 

[PzGren]

Horsesense,

lots of sense in your post! I grew up in Hamburg, Germany and went to a dojo where the St. Pauli pimps trained almost 30 years ago. 50,000 years of accumulated prison time but only 30 years of high school in there.
I was a high-schooler, without eye contact, you look to them like a scared dog and get kicked around like one
.
Normal behaviour without a challenge is just - normal. Unless the Lord has given you the authority to intimidate and stare others down, your approach worked for me.

 

[BerettaNut92]

Your post makes a lot of sense....I wish some of my more hot-headed acquaintences (neutral towards guns, they don't like them or hate them) would read this.

I've never been in a fistfight, knifefight or gunfight...does that mean I'm winning?

 

[PzGren]

If you mastered the situations...yes, I'd say you were the winner.

 

[Soap]

Great post! I differ in one aspect, instead of just focusing on them, I try to let them know with my eyes that I see them and all of the muchachos with them.

 

[Horsesense]

Thanks guys

Any thoughts on how to make a "Tactical Retreat" how about sucker punches ?

Skunk …you’re the man.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Yes
But see all.
Situational awareness.

Sam

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Growing up, my family owned a pawn shop on old East Dallas. We are white and whites were quite the minority in the area and the area was much like many inner city areas. I would ride my bike after school to go work until closing and then ride home. Once I learned enough of the street lingo and posturing, I never had a problem. I got a lot of mileage out of the back tip head nod while keeping my eyes on the person (which results in that sort of half closed eye disinterested look) and saying, " 'sup." in a strong (not yelling, just clearly heard). "'sup," of course, is the short version of "What's up?" but is not said in a questioning tone as much as it was said as a statement. This worked with the white, black, and hispanic guys equally well and apparently gave the impression that I was not an outsider and hence was street savy.

So, eye contact really seemed to be an important part of the non-verbal communication in the area, but was done properly if with a sort of disinterested look such as to convey that "I know you are there. I see you, but I don't fear you" and the communication was capped with the one word abbreviated generic greeting of 'sup.

 

[BerettaNut92]

FYI Jerking your chin up and not saying anything is the AzN (pronounced Asian) equivalent of 'Sup. I know you have a lot in Texas. Try it on Jesse H

 

[Soap]

Horsesense- The absolute last thing I would do in a potentially violent conflict is the classic "sucker punch". Why? Because the only reason I would strike at another person is if I felt like I was in imminent danger with no reasonable chance of escape. If you are find yourself in a conflict and you don't have an escape avenue planned, you've already screwed up. Since I would feel this way, the first shot better be a fight-ending shot if I can manage it and/or get lucky. If the first shot is a quick jabbing punch, that might not give you the opportunity to escape or to end the fight somehow. IME most of the people that get sucker punched are not even hurt.

Then how can you hurt them in the first shot? Try http://www.gutterfighting.org for a good basis. And practice like hell...safely of course!

 

[Horsesense]

My sentiments exactly Daniel.

Throwing a sucker punch is the second to last thing you want to happen in a conflict; the last would be being on the receiving end of a SP.

I was thinking more along the lines of how or what to do to avoid being sucker punch. I really got my bell rung with a sucker punch once, a long time ago. I didn’t go down and stayed in the fight, but I was sufficiently addled that I couldn't have if the guy had really pressed the issue. I kept backing up and he didn’t know to finish things quickly.

I try to stay back enough to leave room for me to see and react, staying back also helps you to not flinch every time he moves, like your afraid he will hit you. People say to watch the hands but that’s a heard thing to do. Its heard to put things like this into words but I watch the eyes and shoulders, any movement in the shoulders and I'm looking to see what the hands are doing. As a matter a fact, I remember a guy who kept moving like he was going to throw one, but every time he was about to, I shifted my gaze to his hands and he would think again. Keeping the hands up, in a non-threatening posture is also good.

I haven't sucker punched anyone sensed grade school and would only do so if all other options were exhausted. I have witnessed several and none have turned out well for the thrower, because they didn’t follow up or split, just stood there while the receiver regained composer and sympathy from friends, who's sense of justice dictated helping bubba teach this "unfair fighter" a lesson.


Saying, "sup" was a little after my time but the head nod thing was in effect. What dose a nod with the chin going down say?



One of the best things about getting old is that you find yourself in these situations less often.

 

[mattd]

What is a bg? Black guy? I have no ideal.

 

[Horsesense]

BG= Bad Guy

 

[Monkeyleg]

Over the last many decades, I've been in quite a few altercations, from simple fistfights, to two-on-one beatings, to having to pull a knife on someone, to having some punk and his friends try to kidnap my wife, to having a gun "displayed" to me by a bad guy, and on and on.

What I've learned--if I've learned anything--is that body language and eye contact when the BG is coming near can make a difference between a confrontation and the BG just passing by.

Second thing I've learned is what is reinforced in motorcycle training classes: watch the most indicative object. For motorcycle riders, that means watching the front wheels of a car. Looking at the driver tells you nothing; looking at his front wheel tells you everything.

Similarly, watching the BG's hands tells you what may be about to happen.

Stare him down if you can, but when he's within distance, concentrate on the areas that can do you harm.

 

[clubsoda22]

In high school i pissed off a particularly large black fellow who, unprovoked had been calling me a fairly nasty term for a homosexual for the past 15 minutes. To make a point to everyone at the table, I made reference to another particularly nasty term which one could conceivably call him (without actually going as far as to call him it), to which he jumped from his seat, fists clenched and bounded over to where i was sitting. He stood over me issued a few threats and yelled, "what did you say (expletive)".

I calmly remained seated, looked him in the eye and said, "you heard me, now sit down." He stood there looking frustrated for a few seconds then returned to his seat looking quite upset. I got up and left. Later that day, after being congratulated by several people for standing up to that moron, one of the guys from the table came over and said that the particularly large black fellow had stood up with firm intention of pounding the crap out of me, but my nonchalant attitude made him so paranoid that just gave up. He was sure I definitely had something up my sleeve due to the fact that i was taking his threats so lightly.

Psychological intimidation works.

 

[WT]

I believe in eye contact. I don't believe in showing empty hands.

Once I was approached by 3 assertive individuals at a lonely highway rest stop. I kept my eyes focused on their approach and reached into my jacket's front pocket where I carried a Model 640 S&W. They saw the move and did a 180. They never saw the piece, only that I put my hand in my pocket as they approached. They saw something in my demeanor which they didn't think was healthy for them.

Growing up in the inner city provided some of life's more interesting experiences. Reading body language is a necessary skill.

 

[Horsesense]

Good point.

You were being sized up by predators and met them with strength, in this case body language. Showing three hoodlums, in a secluded place, that you were not armed wouldn’t be very smart.

I realize that you were not bluffing and apparently so did the BG’s but what would you have done if you hadn’t been armed?

A bluff could be in order: reach hand in pocket, undo jacket as if getting ready to access a shoulder rig even if you have to stick a finger in your ear and talk into your wrist “these are not our boys, hold your position!†You have to realize that you are possibly raising the risk because the BG just may call your bluff, but in cretin situations a bluff may be your best defense.

 

[Sean Smith]

I think there is a dangerous tendency to advise people to be excessively submissive. Predatory thugs profile their prospective prey and go after the weakest of the bunch... they are looking for easy pickings. A quick buck, cheap thrill, easy rape, whatever. When some random guy seems to be threatening you with violence, this is the sort of mindset you have to deal with, even if he strictly speaking isn't a professional criminal. Act like a scardy-cat in dangerous places with bullying people, and you will be wearing your heinie for a hat.

Bluffing will just make you look stupid. Not may people, even stupid people, are scared by bad acting.

 

[Mr Grinch]

Look at the threat's hands.

All the rest is bluffing, blustering, and hoping- whether you are the actor or recipient. The hands will tell you what you need to know.

Happens all the time on the street, you get a couple of twits sliding by either staring at you or just putting on the eyes half closes I don't fear nuttin' attitude trying to project the image that they are the baddest dudes in town. It's all a lame act.

I would add that the defensive minded citizen has no business engaging in such infantile gestures. Just employ your color codes and avoid trouble.

Rarely you will pass someone and notice that they are looking at your hands...now that frightens me.

Grinch

 

[PzGren]

Isn't it hard, to stay civilized in an uncivilized world?

I try hard not to infringe in other peoples rights but why do they try to infringe into my rights?

Fighting them will put you at their level. Your level of confidence might help evade a fight, a fight evaded, is still a fight won, as earlier mentioned.
Now, that I am older I learned that lesson. With a tube of Ben Gay as my best friend.

 

[makarov1]

Mr. Grinch is correct. Hands are what can produce a weapon and kill. Apparently, the 3 assertive gentlemen at the rest stop were watching WT's hands.

 

[Aikibiker]

This is about the best how-to guide on sucker punching I have seen on the web.

The gentleman's art of sucker-punching

Horsesense,

A lot of this should combine really well with your eye contact methods.

 

[Horsesense]

This guy says it better than I did.

http://pacificcoast.net/~ttruscott/lies.html Lies Your Parents Told You Street Lies Dojo Lies



"....So if being 'nice' and ignoring don't work; that is, they don't convince the scavenger//predators that you are not their next meal, what might? You scope them as in "to get them in the cross hairs of your cannon." Scoping is not glaring or sneering which will just get you pounded for a different reason. Scoping is a message sent by a look that says, "I see you. I peg you. I have your number, and I know your games and I can handle it." Then you look away. If you look down to break eye contact, you lose. "I'm a victim in disguise" sign just popped out of your head for him to read. Slide your eyes sideways and scope the rest of the room. Glaring, staring or sneering are not scoping, they are showing your teeth. If he sees little bitty scardy teeth, guess what? Believe it, your best bunny glare will not impress a true coyote, and neither will your best lion cub roar. Better to scope and leave him guessing. Of course a cub trying to pull this on someone much older or bigger than himself is just as futile...give it up and go back to the briar patch until the fox is gone.

Sun Tzu wrote that we should only fight battles that we can win and no one has said it better yet. Everyone knows that some years and practice are necessary to make you really bad so don't try to bluff out of your league. Practice on your friends.

After you scope him and decide that a predator is eyeing you but he doesn't look that bad then, if you have back-up, you may be able to hang around and enjoy the scene but keep him in your periferal vision and follow his moves. Watch him without looking at him. Martial artists call it "to look at nothing and to see everything." By using a soft focus you can increase your periferal (sideways) vision up to about 200 degrees.

Remember the movie Little Big Man where Dustin Hoffman's sister is teaching him to be a gunfighter? She tells him to make snake eyes--this was her way to soft focus and gain periferal acuity because the periferal vision processes fast movement better.

If bad guy slips out while you are getting up to leave, go to Red Alert. If you feel safe when he leaves because he's gone, you just got yourself some free flowers...he may just be moving the scene to a more private place. Do yourself a favor and go out a different way which you checked out before hand. Or stay. Or leave with a group. Acting unaware can bring an attack upon yourself and paying too much attention can cause the same thing but for different reasons.

A scope/check slide is between equals. A scope /pin is for scavengers that you are confident that you can handle (or at least are willing to try) and lasts just a bit longer than the check so that the message is a short, unemotional, "If you want me, try me. I'm not going anywhere."

Of course you may be blowing it and get pounded for challenging someone with a rep to make or a low self esteem hairtrigger type who needs to fight everyone to find all those he can beat. Better make sure that your scope doesn't carry any hidden fear or worry messages in your body language or you just may have to prove that you really are tough.

The other thing you have to do in the real world outside your house and home is to show respect. Something like 60 to 70 per cent of non-hospitalizing assaults on young women by strangers happened when the young woman in question was followed home and pushed or slapped by strangers pissed off over her aggressive and rude driving.

Most young males are pounded for rude body contact on the sidewalk, giving the wrong person the 'punk bump' as you pass. The street will make you pay for rudeness until you get tired of it and mellow out. Being on a skate or a bike is no guarantee that you won't get called for buzzing the citizens either. Two Gold's Gym heavies I knew saw a skate buzz some folks and though he had enough sense to avoid them they took the two steps necessary to hip check him...he bounced off one into the other, then into traffic. Tough lesson.

*Blind spot: one blind spot is behind the corner of the jaw, under your left the ear which the mongrel in front of you will hit with his right fist when you look to your right at one of his boys who just got your attention by yelling or swearing at you. Hint, hint...."

 

[ArmedBear]

Look right at center mass, just like you'd shoot.

Eyes and faces in general are distracting. You want to be able to pick up movement fast, and not be distracted or deceived. Nothing their eyes do can kill you physically, but their eyes can be used to distract or manipulate you into becoming an easier target. Besides, a hard stare right at center mass will throw THEM off-balance if they're looking at your eyes.

Also, if you practice point-shooting, you will shoot where you look. If you're looking center-mass, you can raise and fire a pistol there a lot faster than you think.

You can practice with binoculars if you don't want to freak out the neighbors. Look at something. Then raise the binoculars to your eyes. You should see what you were looking at through them.

Once you get the feel for this, try it with guns. Raise a handgun or shoulder a long gun, while looking at a target. A rifle, shotgun or handgun that fits right will already be aimed at right at what you were looking at. If it's not, figure out why. Consider selling it, or having it fitted if it's a long gun.