Face to Face Gun Sales - Is Paperwork Done?

[D-Man]

Looking around at the Classifieds section, I notice a lot of people would prefer a face-to-face sale if at all possible.

When a FTF is done, what kind of paperwork is filled out? Is it the buyers responsibility to register the gun for ownership purposes, or is that only needed for a new purchase from a gun store?

Obviously I understand the savings with shipping, but I wanted to know if there are other advantages to buying/selling a gun this way.

 

[nbkky71]

You'll have to check your local laws to see if there are any particulars for a face-to-face transaction.

Personally speaking, I always get a receipt when I sell a firearm. It includes pertinant info such as make, model, serial number, names, addresses and signatures of both parties.

 

[hksw]

(Note: I'm taking the question as being between two private individuals.)

IIRC, there are a few places that do require an FFL to conduct a sale of a firearm and/or background checks even between private individuals in the same state. Check your laws to be sure if you fall into those areas or not.

For the most part, however, most places allow private sales to go through without any required paperwork (within the same state for handguns, surrounding states for long guns). To cover yourself, however, it is usually a good idea to somehow record the sale. Of the two private sales I've done, I've always written down the information about the gun and buyer (not necessarily a drivers license or address, just a name at least) and have the buyer sign the slip of paper. Just for my records. I also make it a point to know a little about the buyer before selling, which should also apply with sellers. Ignorance of the buyer's/seller's background could be a problem in the future. The two folks I've sold to I knew were clean as one had a CCL and the other I've seen go through background checks via FFLs before.

 

[Nathanael_Greene]

Here in Texas, an exchange of money and firearm is all that's required.

 

[rbernie]

It is considered prudent to check some form of ID to verify that the buyer is a resident of your home state. Generally, things are more stringent at gun shows than they are in private face2face meetings.

 

[doggscube]

It's impossible to transfer handguns FTF in MD, for one state. You had to meet at the state police barracks, walk in to set up the transfer, officer goes out to the car to complete the paperwork, then the gun goes back with the seller while you wait for the 7-day, actually a 168-hr., waiting period. Then you both meet again at the barracks to complete the transaction.

You can understand why I never bought private party in MD.

-Jeff

 

[JohnKSa]

Check your local laws. As far as federal laws go, the only requirement is that you reasonably believe the buyer is not committing any crimes by purchasing the gun.

If you meet me ftf to sell me a gun and ask for my name and address as a condition of sale, you'll get to keep your gun. The law doesn't require that I provide that information--therefore I won't. I'm not saying that it's wrong for you to ask--just that I don't feel obligated to provide it.

 

[ABTOMAT]

Like they say, depends on the area. In MA you need to send in a transfer form.

 

[aaronrkelly]

In Iowa there is no paperwork required and I wont do any, rather Im the seller or the buyer......its not necessary and I wont help create a firearm registry database for the ATF.

I simply ask them are they legally able to own the firearm and ask them if they are a criminal.....nope......heres your gun, thanks for the money.

 

[22-rimfire]

Please tell us what state you are in, whether you are over 18 or 21, whether the firearm is a long gun or handgun, and maybe someone can address your question specifically.

Added note: I checked some of your posts, it appears you are in PA. See info below from PA State Police Web Site:

Who needs a background check relating to firearm issues in Pennsylvania?

Under most circumstances Federal firearm dealers are exempt from a Pennsylvania Instant Background Check. (The exception would be a licensed collector (type 03 license). Regular handguns and long guns sold over the counter to a dealer who is a licensed collector would require a background check. Licensed collectors would not need a background check to purchase guns classified as curios or relics.) Everyone else must have a background check, including police officers and individuals with a License to Carry Firearms, when they are purchasing a firearm from a dealer. Handgun transfers between private individuals require a background check unless the exchange is between family members such as parent and child, grandparent and grandchild, or spouses. Long gun transfers between private individuals who both reside in this state do NOT require a background check or any paperwork.

 

[Stiletto Null]

I thought F2F transfers were (generally; I THINK it's the case in NC) the only legal way in which someone under 21 but over 18 could legally purchase a handgun?

 

[Deanimator]

Governed by state and local laws, so long as the sale is between residents of the same state when a handgun is involved.

I haven't bought a gun on a 4473 in ten years. I've bought a bunch of guns in that time, and every one was purchased from friends or from fellow club members.

If you're in some third world dictatorship, like California, ALL sales must go through a dealer.

It's nice to live in Ohio. It's nice to live in the United States...

 

[bpisler]

Nope,no paperwork i just check DL and
take the cash.Years ago i would do a
simply reciept with names,serial #,
price and the date.

 

[trailgator]

In Missouri, ftf is fine for longuns. No paperwork required. For handguns, buyer must get a "permit to acquire" from your county of resisdence (fill out form, wait for sheriff's okie dokie, pay $10 and pick up form at office). Seller fills in pistol info and mails it back to sheriff's office. A real pain if, like me, you live barely inside one county(30 miles from sheriff's office), and work in another (50 miles in the other direction). It's a logistical PITA. :banghead:

 

[Polishrifleman]

Tricky Situation

This is one of those topics with a lot of misinformation. Through no fault of our own just because there are so many opinions, thoughts, and places to look for and miss laws, statutes and interpretations. The quickest and easiest answer is for:

In state transaction look at your state laws, or call the attorney general's office.

Out of state transaction look at Feds or call the atf.

I say this because one of the original posts said long guns could transfer ftf with neighboring states with no paperwork. This is not true, the transfer needs to be done through an FFL. That doesn't mean you have to mail it 2 miles across the border, what it means is that the parties need to meet at an FFL who will do the transfer in either state, it doesn't matter, what matters is that you are participating in interstate commerce which the feds rule. Here is an expample of an Idaho statute that outlines it pretty well.
http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=180330015.K

 

[rellascout]

Check your local laws. As far as federal laws go, the only requirement is that you reasonably believe the buyer is not committing any crimes by purchasing the gun.

If you meet me ftf to sell me a gun and ask for my name and address as a condition of sale, you'll get to keep your gun. The law doesn't require that I provide that information--therefore I won't. I'm not saying that it's wrong for you to ask--just that I don't feel obligated to provide it.

Problem with that attititude in in VA is that I can only sell you a gun FTF if you are a VA resident. If you cannot produce a valid VA lic then I cannot complete the sale. State police use this all the time to snare ignorant sellers at gun shows in VA.

Why on earth would demand a seller put themselves in a position of liabilty in order to sell you a gun?

 

[hksw]

I say this because one of the original posts said long guns could transfer ftf with neighboring states with no paperwork. This is not true, ...

Whoop, you're right. I was thinking buying from a dealer.

 

[JohnKSa]

rellascout,

That is not a state law, that is a federal law. It may be a VA state law that you have to show proof of residence for a ftf sale, but the underlying law is the federal law making it illegal to sell handguns to people who aren't either FFL holders or residents of your state.

In my state, there is no legal obligation to investigate a purchaser before a ftf firearm sale. A person only needs to reasonably believe that there is nothing that disqualifies the purchaser from purchasing the firearm.

If the person doesn't look old enough, shows up in a car with out-of-state plates, tells you that they are a felon, etc. then you can't sell to them. And you shouldn't sell to them. But unless you have some reason to suspect that they might be disqualified, you can legally sell them the gun, and they have no legal obligation to provide you with any information at all.

I've bought most of my guns via the 4413 method, so I'm not trying to dodge the laws, I just don't believe in doing more than the law requires in this case.

 

[redbearde]

Stiletto Null, in NC you must acquire a handgun purchase permit before you may purchase a handgun regardless of from whom you get it. The only time you don't is when you're getting your own gun back from a pawn shop.

http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf

that might be of some use to you.

 

[jaysouth]

A gun that I purchased from a dealer and subsequently sold to an individual showed up at a crime scene in NJ.

I got a call from the BATF, they wanted to come to my house and ask me about the gun and the tranaction.

At the appointed time, a male and female agent knocked on the front door and provided ID and business cards.

They were, of course, interested knowing who I sold the gun to and their possible involvement in the NJ Crime. They would not tell me any details of the crime.

I explained that the person to whom I sold the gun in the aisle of gunshow showed me a Virginia Driver's Liense and his VA license to carry a handgun. I had asked for the DL to assure myself that he was a fellow resident of Va and the Concealed permit gave me some assurance that he had not been convicted of any serious crimes in the past. I could not provide a name or a good description.

There was no comment or reproach about lack of documetation in this case or the fact that I had bought over a hundred guns from dealers in the past 20 years. (they knew exactly how many guns I had bought from a prominent dealer in the area in the past year). Nor was there any comment about my selling scores of guns without any documentation. The only question that I considered 'leading' was about how much profit I had made from all the transactions. I looked them in the eyes and stated that I had not ever calculated gains or losses, but my losses were probably over $20,000 in 30 years.(think about it, indulging my guntrading passion was cheaper than playing golf or shooting skeet)

The 'alpha' agent thanked me for my time and cooperation and the two of them got up and left.

Due dilligence is in order but need not be documented if you can tell a sincere story.