Fact or Fiction? Any Gun Safe Is Better Than No Gun Safe

[armedwalleye]

Im of the mind that anything that slows them down or makes noise is something the smash and grabber want to avoid. Anything that looks like something else, or anything chained or cabled to something big will help

 

[illinoisburt]

Absolutely any safe is worlds better than no safe. As others have mentioned, persons who are specifically looking to steal items stored in a safe are going to bring tools and expect to make noise/take time are not the common burglars. Honestly all a safe does is slow those types, not stop them. But that is a really rare situation. Far and away the biggest benefit of a safe or any other locked steel/concrete storage is keeping out curious kids and smash/grab types. It also prevents sticky fingers of people doing work in the house (especially with rentals where you may not have a lot of control over who is getting access at times). I would suggest placing a safe in a place where it's not conspicuous to people walking though rooms of the house, like in a closet. Locked doors help as well -- the old people covet what they see does apply all too often in life.

For people who cannot afford the expense of a dedicated safe with fireproofing, or have limitations from space or circumstances, it's still better to get a simple locking steel cabinet than leaving items in carrying cases or drawers. I strongly suggest the safe, lockbox, or whatever else you use is made at least somewhat difficult to pick up. A couple of drywall anchors are easy enough to fixed when you move out of the house.

 

[Elkins45]

I don’t worry about a gang of dedicated safe crackers who come specifically for my guns because nothing short of a TL rated safe is going to stop them, and I can’t see myself ever having one of those. I absolutely do worry about drive-by tweakers who crawl thru a rear window and grab whatever they can in five minutes. There are a lot more of them than there are professional burglary gangs, and even a rudimentary steel box will likely slow them down enough they won’t stick around to defeat it.

The utility to cost ratio on gun storage has a very steep initial curve. An investment of just a few hundred bucks will foil a very high percentage of thieves, but it takes several thousand more to reach the far right corner of that graph.

 

[Blue Jays]

I have seen THR posters advise taking a plastic storage bin and scrawling "Christmas Decorations" in marker.
Firearms on bottom with a couple of wreaths, garland, and string lights tossed on top. Put on shelf. Not a bad idea.

 

[CapnMac]

Being in a rental really complicates things.
Rental nearly always means "not enough storage space." Which makes giving up an entire closet or even the back 6-8" of one a serious problem.

Because storage space is at a premium maybe there's already an investment in wardrobes, armoires, and similar cabinets which will take the pressure off a closet and allow some sort of conversion. Because a rental means "permissive access" you are going to need to be a touch "religious" about keeping ammo boxes, ammo cans, reloading gear, "gun" periodicals, and the like, out of sight, too. Out-of-sight is out-of-mind after all.

In my time as a renter I was pretty lucky. I had a highy-uninvolved landlord (three in a row come to cases) and very low rent, so I had an entire spare room which meant an entire spare closet which was of a size to fit my decent Liberty Lincoln safe and have room left over. I considered bolting it down but, considering the quality of construction neither the circa three slab nor the flimsy 2x3 framed walls suggested much in the way of "more secure."

I had looked into BedVault as an option, but the bedroom dimensions did not leave a lot of room to get into a BedVault. I had a stand-up freezer (wanted for game storage) which became surplus after renting a locker at the local meat-monger instead (more room fewer issues with power outages).

Freezer got a lot more attention from infrequent repair or pest-control visitors.

Given the price of meat and eggs a spare fridge or freezer might get more unwanted attention now than in times past.

Dunno just 2¢ spend it as you will.

 

[Walkalong]

Something that can't be opened in 5 minutes with a small pry bar and hammer will stop most smash and grab thieves, and unless you advertise what you have that's the most likely scenario.

Saved me when a smash and grab guy pried open the back door with a crowbar and stole a TV. The heck with the TV, I bought another one.

 

[Reloadron]

I would be in the anything is better than nothing. In time as more guns came along and kids grown and on their own came the better safe. Home security has also become less expensive.

Ron

 

[AlexanderA]

Replace the residential knob on an interior closet door with a keyed entry lockset.

Most of those interior (and especially closet) doors are either louvered or flimsy hollow-core doors. Replace the door itself with a solid-core door. And if it hinges outwards (exposing the hinge pins), replace some of the hinge screws with longer, headless screws that enter the opposite side of the hinge.

 

[Anchorite]

Something that can't be opened in 5 minutes with a small pry bar and hammer will stop most smash and grab thieves, and unless you advertise what you have that's the most likely scenario.

Saved me when a smash and grab guy pried open the back door with a crowbar and stole a TV. The heck with the TV, I bought another one.

A safe is first and foremost a layer of safety to keep guns out of unwanted hands, IMO. Secondly it’s a deterrent - a barrier that requires time to defeat.

I have a Browning safe hidden in a closet that you’d have to look in to actually find it. It’s fire proof (something like 1400 degrees for 60 minutes - I may be off on that). It fit my needs at the time and continues to to this day. It’s enough for my needs, but I own my own home. I even got a slight insurance break (and because I have video surveillance system that records).

I believe that a burglar will avoid it all together, and having been a criminal defense lawyer for the better part of 20 years I can confirm from my experiences in cases that even your technically proficient burglars are, 1. Not carrying the tools to defeat most safes, and 2. Not interested in buying the time to defeat the safe. They always go for the low hanging fruit (tvs, electronics, your alcohol, etc.).

In the end, my advice is buy a safe. It’s never going to be a purchase you regret. Just carefully study your needs before you buy so that you buy the correct safe for your needs and your situation. Hope this helps.

 

[AlexanderA]

I've seen people putting their safes where they're visible to any casual visitor. Even right in their living rooms! The safe itself should be deeply hidden. Whole books have been written on how to hide things. (Don't copy their specific ideas, because thieves read these books too. Use your imagination instead.) You can go so far as creating a secret room in your house, with a cleverly disguised entrance. There are many "dead spaces" in a typical house.

 

[Elkins45]

And if it hinges outwards (exposing the hinge pins), replace some of the hinge screws with longer, headless screws that enter the opposite side of the hinge.

I’m trying unsuccessfully to picture what you are describing here.

 

[DeepSouth]

I've seen people putting their safes where they're visible to any casual visitor. Even right in their living rooms! The safe itself should be deeply hidden.

I have a buddy that upgraded to a bigger safe, which he hid somewhere in this house. Meanwhile his old safe he put in the garage, nearly visible from the road, put a few bags of concrete in it along with a note that read “if you worked this hard at getting a job you would have something to show for it”

Only person I’ve ever known to have a decoy safe, but it’s not a terrible idea.

 

[daniel craig]

I would go with cheap being better than nothing. Absolutely.

I would also recommend if your insurance allows you under maybe a valuable personal property kicker for your rental insurance to get your guns specifically put on your renters insurance so if something does happen to them at least you'll get some money for them. If you don't have renters insurance get it.

 

[armedwalleye]

I’m trying unsuccessfully to picture what you are describing here.

If you have what’s typically/called an outswing door, replacing one screw with a headless screw and allowing it to stand proud 3/8 of an inch and removing the same position screw on the other half of the hinge will allow the stub to go into the hole on the opposing hinge half. It will prevent someone from popping the pins and removing the entire door to gain access.

 

[Elkins45]

If you have what’s typically/called an outswing door, replacing one screw with a headless screw and allowing it to stand proud 3/8 of an inch and removing the same position screw on the other half of the hinge will allow the stub to go into the hole on the opposing hinge half. It will prevent someone from popping the pins and removing the entire door to gain access.

Thank you. I understand now. Great idea.

 

[SwampWolf]

If someone has enough time, tools and expertise, Fort Knox can be breached. Having enough time is the biggest asset if you're a yegg'man. I have had one of the earliest safes designed to secure firearms for the past several decades, an old Treadlok and it has served me well-but I live in a very safe neighborhood. A nice neighborhood is no guarantee (I wish I could afford one of the latest fireproof safes) but living in a low-crime neighborhood and keeping a "low profile" are the best hedges against thefts of any kind.

Of course, the best safe is better than a lesser safe but a cheaper safe is certainly better than no safe. As others have opined, keeping a safe of any kind bolted to a stud is good advice.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Yeah, the Pyramids of Egypt were built at state expense and no cost was spared, yet nearly all of them were looted in antiquity with the rest looted by British scientists. A home safe (residential security container) is a minor inconvenience to a determined thief but often even a slight inconvenience or delay is deterrent enough. Given enough time any safe can be breached although a TL-15/30 is going to take pro tools & a bit of time. At once point I obsessed about such things and studied everything I could about safes, but I think for the most part that nearly any safe is better than nothing. Heavy is good if simply to make it a hassle to haul away. Fire ratings are useful but few safes will protect your stuff from a five-alarm blaze that burns for hours, but in many cases the Fire Dept will probably get it under control fairly soon. I'm in kind of the same boat at the OP, renting an apartment that isn't huge with mediocre construction that doesn't allow me to do a lot of secure or hide a safe (although the doors are steel and fairly heavy, FWIW).

 

[shoobe01]

It is all about layers and risk mitigation. How many fire extinguishers do you have? Same sort of thing. Anything is better than nothing, I'd 100% get a locker or reasonably strong door with good padlock before I hid things and hoped for the best.


To make you feel better about that cheap locker, I have it on very good authority most "gun safes" (read the label, they are "Residential Security Containers") are trivially easy to defeat for people at all determined. Clever chisel and prybar work, much less a nibbler, and the side is pried off in single digit minutes. Oh, and they are not especially fire resistant either (fire rating is for stacks of papers, and to be usable not un-damaged. Guns are more fragile by far than paper believe it or not).

So living in the city with an ISO1 FD and busybody neighbors, etc etc. I have gone to guns inside a cage, inside another cage (with ammo, training rifles, etc) in a three sided concrete little alcove in the basement. Oh, and Simplex pushbutton mechanical locks all around.

Yup, you could cut through the weak parts in a few minutes. If you are determined, know it's there, brought the right tools. But, not much faster than if it was a shiny safe. And by then my neighbors will notice and the cops are waiting.

Friend built a house in the country, far enough out the neighbors might not notice if his house burned down. He did different security levels, and it would take an hour with a pavement saw, and more, to get through his various levels, if somehow no one was home (rare) or the security system didn't work to notify him, his friends, or the authorities.

 

[JTHunter]

Trapper - if you live in or near a fairly large city, check your phone book for "safes". There may be a business that deals with used safes and you might find something usable for your situation.

 

[hawg]

A dog is better than a safe.

 

[Crosshair]

Any safe just delays determined thieves. Obviously, a cheap safe is better than no safe. But your best protection is secrecy, and overall premises security. Make sure you strictly limit the number of people that know you have guns.

This is the mindset that you should have. Against an "Oceans 11" style heist, there is not much you can do. Most burglaries are not like that though. Most are by a low-IQ criminals like that one who took 10+ minutes to slim-jim my 30 year old jalopy. (We had them on video.)

So don't think, "Will this keep my things safe". Instead, think along the lines of, "How long will it take them to get to my valuables for a given amount of attention drawing behavior."

Security is layered. So think beyond the safe. There are many cheap things you can do to make your safe less attractive.

1. Bottles of Alcohol. Having several large bottles of high-proof alcohol visible inside the house might cause 1 of 2 things to happen:

A. They get themselves drunk in your home, resulting in more chances they get caught or make mistakes.
B. They take all the alcohol they can carry and leave. You're now out a few hundred dollars in easily replaced alcohol.​

2. Make your safe inconvenient to get to with tools. Store a bunch of stuff on top of it that will either fall or need to be moved if they're going at it with tools. Instead of having the safe face out from the wall, have the door 90 degrees if possible.
3. Noisemaker boobytraps. I'm talking the 120db ones that take a 9 volt battery. You can get them for a little over $10. Get the ones that have the remote switch that is 2-pieces of metal that need to be held together. Don't get the ones that take the button batteries. Put them on all your windows and use the remote switch to booby trap anything valuable that isn't regularly moved. Under a leg of a TV. Under the stuff on top of your gun safe. Under your desktop computer. Think of the things that you don't move but a thief might when searching a house.

 

[3Crows]

If the safe is bolted to the floor and is set into a cubby hole or inset into the home construction such that the back, top and sides are difficult to get to then the thief would have to tear through walls, rip up concrete or other challenges to get to the vulnerable areas of the safe, the thin top, back and sides. If keeping children away from your guns is the motive then even an inexpensive safe might or should be able to do that.

 

[westernrover]

I have seen THR posters advise taking a plastic storage bin and scrawling "Christmas Decorations" in marker.
Firearms on bottom with a couple of wreaths, garland, and string lights tossed on top. Put on shelf. Not a bad idea.

Just don't wrap them in foil and put them in the freezer.

 

[westernrover]

I've seen people putting their safes where they're visible to any casual visitor. Even right in their living rooms! The safe itself should be deeply hidden. Whole books have been written on how to hide things. (Don't copy their specific ideas, because thieves read these books too. Use your imagination instead.) You can go so far as creating a secret room in your house, with a cleverly disguised entrance. There are many "dead spaces" in a typical house.

I was talking to another customer at the local tractor store that is a Liberty dealer. He said something in admiration of a really beautiful safe. I said I couldn't understand why I'd want such an immaculate paint job. He explained that it's for putting in your living room, to show off, to display to the people that come to your house. I realized that he must be right. I can't think of another reason for the bright, glossy, starburst paint with shiny gilding and elaborate scroll work. I just don't have that lifestyle myself -- you know, with one of those rooms that's for looks and not for use, with the chairs that nobody sits in.

 

[MI2600]

While I recognize the value of safes, I went with an ADT alarm system, with interior motion, breaking glass (windows) and all entry door sensors. If the alarm is not disarmed within 60 seconds, ADT calls for the disarm code, failing that, the police (less than 5 minutes away) are notified.

There are always items beyond guns to be protected,