FAIL ZERO products, any good?

[starkadder]

I have been seeing advertisements for FAIL ZERO weapons components, they make upgrade kits for AR's and 1911's that have a permanently applied dry lubricant on the bering surfaces, which they claim will last for 10,000 plus rounds without wet lubrication of any kind. Has any one here tried there products?

I have always believed that the less wet lubrication the better, I have two guns that have never seen oil or grease, one is a Colt AR-15E2 and the other is my carry gun, a KelTec P3AT.

The Colt is my go-to rifle, it has about 2,000rounds down the pipe with zero "yes I said zero" failures. The only lube it has ever had is a shot of graphite powder in the bolt and carrier every now and then.

the KelTec has always run on pocket lint, I carry it in my front pants pocket, I unload it once or twice a week and blow it out and it runs great. I have a little over 200 rounds through it with no problems.

What are your thoughts on the gun lubrication issue?


This is this! It's not something else, it's this!

Don't pull it if you don't plan to use it, and don't use it if you don't plan to kill!

ALWAYS REMEMBER OUR MEN AND WOMEN OVER THERE

 

[PPGMD]

POF did something similar to their bolt carriers, and upper receivers. They ran a campaign "Cleaning, and lubrication optional."

Well guess where their reputation as POS (yes POS as in Piece of...) comes from, users running it without any cleaning or lubrication. While users like myself that never bought into that hype run their products fine.

Anyways there are reports that Fail Zero works from my sources, but I still would run it with lube so that it runs even longer.

My overall thoughts about gun lubrication, first go to Walmart, go to the automotive section, and find the tub of Hi-Temp Lithium Complex grease, it should cost around $2 for a 1lb tub. Go home, and apply liberally to the wear surfaces on your gun. There you go, gun lubricated.

 

[chrismyerssa]

Fail Zero

This company spent six years coating military jet engine parts with nickel boron as a military subcontractor. The parts lasted 70% longer than without treatment. Next the US Army contracted them for M-16 bolts with good success. They've been doing that for over six months now. That's a lot of engines and pistols - with good success. "Fail Zero" is their first commercial venture. I'm told the 1911 frame and parts are made by Caspian. This product is similiar to NP3. The company says there's an article coming out on the products in the major gun magazines very soon. Meanwhile, here's something to consider...a Caspain frame, slide, hammer, trigger, and disconnector (if I remember right) for $600.00. That's not a bad price. IF the new technology works well you've got a bargain PLUS a slick functioning pistol. The 1911 kit is set-up for standard 45 ACP components. They won't treat your parts yet, but they may soon. The pistol doesn't require blueing or any addittional coating for protection. I wish I had an extra $600.00 to try this - I'd jump on it! - Chris Myers San Angelo Texas US Air Force (retired)

 

[Avenger29]

Pistons or not, magic coatings or not, guns need lube.

AR-15s run best wet. Not putting lube on it isn't doing the gun any good.

The Colt is my go-to rifle, it has about 2,000rounds down the pipe with zero "yes I said zero" failures. The only lube it has ever had is a shot of graphite powder in the bolt and carrier every now and then.

Industry experts and serious shooters have known for years that AR-15s run best wet.

Check out this article by Pat Rogers if you want some good info.

 

[mini14gb]

This is a pretty compelling review from a guy who is a professional "contractor" trainer.
http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=50912&start=0

and here is another link to a Department of Energy test on the Failzero. The review is in PDF file form. Why is the Department of Energy testing rifles?
http://www.failzero.com/action-repo...ystems-in-dept-of-energy-live-fire-tests.html

Pretty compelling. The first link review is complete with good pictures and follow ups on range sessions. The guy got 2056 rounds much of which was suppressed fire and some full auto without a single drop of oil. I'm sold on the system.

 

[Carne Frio]

This only is to comment on the graphite as a lube in AR15 types.
It seems to be contraindicated.

http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/lubricants.html

 

[moonman16]

Cylinder and Slide has a complete pistol with it for $3000. Professional Operators in harsh environments do not have worry about lubrication. Dirt or powder supposedly justs wipes off and the pistol runs just fine without lube. (lube will hold dirt and contaminants.) I think American Handgunner had an article where they ran a few thousand rounds through a treated firearm and no problems.

 

[mini14gb]

Ok quick update. I bought the FailZero receiver and BCG package. I've ran it completely dry now for a little over 1500 rounds and have not had one problem failure. The weapon is not showing any additional wear and tear of any kind. I also ordered the barrel extension but it would not work in my M&P15 without re-threading so I opted not to use it.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I recently bought a couple of AR15 uppers as well as NiB BCG's. These Spikes BCG's are coated by FailZero. Haven't tested them out yet unfortunately, but I will. I have heard great things about them. Yes, they can run without lube. Lube is still recommended though...

 

[mini14gb]

RockyMtnTactical,

The original FailZero DOES NOT recommend ANY lube. They actually say it will diminish the effectiveness of the product.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

The original FailZero DOES NOT recommend ANY lube. They actually say it will diminish the effectiveness of the product.

Link please.

 

[mini14gb]

I will try to find you a link however this was something that a FailZero rep told me over the phone when I called to ask a question about gas key staking and the conversation spilled into other topics.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

Only reason I ask is because everything I have read has stated otherwise. I've scowred (sp?) their website for information and have yet to read anything about them recommending that you not lube.

 

[mini14gb]

Rocky I found a thread at Zombie Squad where a guy had a very similar conversion with an engineer at FailZero. The engineer at FailZero told him lube makes the system less reliable. The guy who posted the comment is a weapons instructor for Milcopptactical LLC which is a contracting firm. I didn't talk to a engineer but I talked to a sales rep on the phone. Ironically they also talk about gas key staking in this thread. Long story short this insructor ran his failzero in semi, surrpressed and full auto and wen well over 2000 rounds without failure and NO LUBE. Here is the link: http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=50912&start=48

The part about the engineer is half way down the page. Here is a cut and paste from the thread.


Re: Fail-Zero AR Bolt Carrier Group

Postby DavePAL84 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:08 pm

DannusMaximus wrote:So, is lubing this BCG contraindicated, or just not as necessary? Put another way, are they designed to work with no lubrication whatsoever as a best practices, or is the coating more designed to act as a safety for the times when you don't have access to proper lube or you have not had time to lube/clean the weapon?

You obviously CAN use this BCG with no lube, but that doesn't necessarily mean you SHOULD, does it? I wonder if using a bit of lube wouldn't truly make this a zero fail BCG.

By the way, for the remainder of the day you get +5 cool points if you can use the term "Permanent Dry Lubricity" (used on the FailZero website) in a sentence...

Great write up.



I actually called up the company and asked this very question. I talked with one of the engineers and he told me that, "You most certainly can run it lubricated but we found that it's actually less reliable that way". So, FZ recommends against lubricating at all. IIRC Costa still lubed the bolt on his because it's a rotating part. I didn't bother doing so. I also did not install the hammer that came with the kit.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

Interesting. It certainly deserves some added investigation and maybe even personal testing. Thanks.