failure to eject caused by worn barrel

[Serenity]

Failure to Eject: Extraction Failure

My used Sig P226 was failing to eject and I was taking the blame for it, assuming I was limp-wristing or otherwise shooting it stupidly and it turns out the barrel entrance was worn so the cases were expanding and not ejecting. After someone who is gun savvy figured that out (and showed me how a cartridge would wiggle around in my barrel but was nice and snug in one of his) I ordered a barrel. (ka-)ching. I took it to the range today for the first time and it worked perfectly. My marksmanship sucked; I'm blaming that on the giant diet coke I had right before I went out there. But anyway, I tried to title this so if someone else is having the same problem maybe a search will bring this up.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Interesting. Are you saying the entire chamber was oversized, or was there some kind of wear where the feed ramp transitions to the chamber? Were the fired cases from the old barrel bulged or distorted? If it wasn't mismanufactured to start with, that barrel must have had many tens of thousands of rounds through it.

 

[BSA1]

Sounds implausible for factory gun. But since you brought it used it sounds like Joehacksaw got near it with a dremel tool.

 

[dfsixstring]

I think I agree that it sounds "improbable" but not "impossible". When two metals wear against each other, the softer metal tends to cause the more rigid metal to wear away faster. The only problem is that I would suspect this would almost take millions of rounds rather than thousands to cause this.


RST4S
SR9c
LCP

 

[JDGray]

Thanks for the heads up! But thats how Glocks are designed from the get go, and they function just fine that way

Seriously, was your chamber rough inside or did your spent brass look funny? Was the extractor claw pulling over the case rim, leaving a mark?

 

[Weevil]

The brass will always expand under pressure, loose or tight it's gonna fill the chamber and press up against the sides.

I never heard of a loose chamber causing fail to eject problems, just the opposite a tight chamber is usually the cause. This is why Glock uses loose chambers.

Now I have seen chambers that were rough or full of tool-marks and rings that caused FTEs, but when polished and smoothed out worked great.

If the chamber were way out of size you would get split brass but as long as the chamber is smooth it will still eject.

 

[DPris]

Confirming you meant eject as opposed to extract?
The fired cases do not come out of the chamber, or they do not eject completely from the gun? Were the cases binding the slide?
Was your "gun savvy" friend's comparison barrel the same brand & model as your pistol?
What replacement barrel did you buy, factory or aftermarket?
And, what do you mean by "barrel entrance"?

It's not that people are doubting your veracity, just difficult to follow with limited info.
Denis

 

[Serenity]

I got the gun used and it had been a competition shooter's gun, so yeah, thousands and thousands of rounds. I tried to find a good diagram of the gun to use the right terminology, but I meant the entrance into the barrel, before the rifling starts. The case would actually be stuck there sometimes, and the gun would have to be tapped pretty hard with the nose in the air or I would even have to grab it with my nails to pull it out. The barrel entrance was smooth and clean. I don't know if it was the original barrel or had been fiddled with. The barrel I have now is a Fire Dragon barrel.

I may be wrong about what was actually wrong with the barrel, but the result with the new barrel is indisputable: no failures in a hundred round box instead of a failure every ten rounds or more often. Looking back it's interesting how willing I was to take the blame for the malfunction; thinking that I was doing something wrong.

 

[DPris]

The "entrance" is called the chamber. The chamber is where the cartridge resides in a firing position till you shoot the pistol.

You're saying the case gets stuck inside the chamber on firing, and the extractor won't pull it out? Completely inside, partially inside?
That's an extraction problem, not an ejection problem, if I'm understanding you.

Where are you tapping on the gun with its nose in the air?
Can you manually open the slide when a case gets stuck in the chamber? You're grabbing the empty case with your fingernails to pull it out of the chamber?


You didn't answer the question about what exact pistol your gun savvy guy used to compare with yours.

As others have mentioned, I've never heard of a loose chamber causing extraction failures, unless possibly cases split & lodge inside the chamber.

Have you had any split fired cases?
What ammunition are you using?


Might also have a bad extractor, even if it does seem to be working better with your new barrel.
Denis

 

[Serenity]

None of the cases were split. The gun is always clean. When it was stuck in the chamber, I would lock the slide open, drop the magazine, and either tap the frame on the table with the nose in the air or grab the case with my fingernails to pull it out. It was stuck completely in the chamber.

I don't know what he was comparing it to; it was more of a "this is what it should look like" in general thing to show that mine was loose. I just got both of mine out to compare to each other, though. The old chamber, when I put a loaded case in it, is sloppy and I can wriggle the case around a little. When I put the same loaded case in the new chamber, it is snug and does not rock around at all. The old barrel looks like the original, it says sig sauer on it. If that is the case, it has definitely seen a lot of use.

If it was the extractor, it does not seem like making the chamber fit tighter would help the issue, but I'm certainly open to new information.

Whatever the issue was; it is resolved and I am happy to have my gun running again. Now I will have to shoot several thousand rounds through it (oh, darn!) before I can consider it reliable, but at least we're back on track.

 

[Onward Allusion]

Based on your description and "fix", you have the beginnings of a worn extractor. The looseness of the chamber is preventing the extractor from grabbing onto the cannelure (rim cut). As the extractor attempts to engage, the case shifts ever so slightly away from the worn extractor claw. Your new barrel holds the case in place.

 

[Serenity]

Thanks. So if it starts to be a problem again, that will be my first check.

 

[DPris]

My money would be on the extractor.
You didn't say what ammunition you're using when the problems occur.

And, if you want to make your thread title more appropriate for search functions it should read "Extraction Failure", not "Ejection Failure".

Also, chambers vary in tolerances between makers and designs even when new. A better comparison with your savvy guy would have been using another SIG barrel like yours.

Glocks run looser chambers as mentioned, some aftermarket barrels in various pistols run tighter in general or into match-grade chambers in particular.

If you were here, I could show you a relatively "loose" 1911 chamber from Colt & compare it to a tighter match chamber from an aftermarket guy in another 1911. Both function perfectly, as long as the extractors are in good shape.

It's far more likely to have extraction problems in a high-mileage pistol from a worn extractor than a worn chamber.

Denis

 

[Serenity]

I will ask at the LGS where I bought it if the extractor has been replaced; he's familiar with the gun.

 

[DPris]

Not to be a nag, but can you please say what ammunition you're using when the problems occur, and are you still using the same stuff in the new barrel?
Denis

 

[Serenity]

federal that comes from walmart. But it has done it with every ammo I have tried: blazer brass, federal redbox, lawman. I don't shoot WWB because it leaves such a mess, so I don't know about that. I have only tried the federal since I replaced the barrel. I don't get out to shoot very often; this whole thing has unfolded over the last year.

I have to start studying my materials for the job I start in two weeks, so I need to spend what time I do have shooting, not writing about shooting. I just thought I would share this in case someone else has the same problem. Hopefully they will get some good information from the discussion. Thank you for sharing your knowledge

 

[Skylerbone]

Serenity, generous chamber proportions are generally spec'd to enhance feed reliability and some guys polish them (usually with an too aggressive media) to prevent extraction issues. Barring any obvious bulging of your brass, consider finding a good lead solvent and a light source to check before and after results. Couldn't hurt to have a spare barrel JIC.

 

[DPris]

Answering the ammunition question helps eliminate that as a potential cause or contributor, thanks.
Denis

 

[Serenity]

I will definitely hang on to the old barrel after reading all of this.

And there is a smiley at the end (or beginning): the gun is running now after giving me fits, so it's a win