Fast Target Acquisition with Old/Weak Eyes

[NoAlibi]

Glasses and or contact lenses are now a part of my daily life. Long story short, sometimes the situation that dictates what my eye correction methods are is not complimentary to fast target acquisition.

I would ask those of you that actually have encountered this problem to share how they have solved it so that others of us may benefit from your experience.

What sights do you think work the best and how you train with them. Thanks…..Doc

 

[xXxplosive]

Day light is fine but low light conditions for me, AM or PM......CTLaser......most definately.

 

[conw]

Orange front sight is a perennial favorite. Definitely tritium front if not rear also.

Check out the ameriglo hackathorn sights.

A refresher defensive handgun class and lots of dry fire practice dialing in technique after getting the new gear is also an excellent idea.

 

[Averageman]

Take a look at what Gabe Suarez is doing with the Glocks.
A Trijicon RMR mounted in a machined groove in the slide that cowittnesses with iron supressor sights.
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/
I have one and I am very happy with it. It is fast accurate and easy to use.
At 50 with eyeglasses, I can easily shoot fast and accurate again.

 

[Sgt_R]

I was going to suggest a TSD Glock, but I see Averageman beat me to it. FWIW, I don't own one yet, but it's on my short list. Probably next month. There are other 'smiths doing similar mods, but based on my research I honestly believe Suarez is at the head of the pack right now.

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/tsdcombatsystems.com.aspx

R

 

[ball3006]

A solution to this is called "practice".....chris3

 

[Sky]

When I was younger and had eyes of the Eagle it seemed I could put the sights on a target regardless of body position or grip with either hand; not anymore......fast forward several decades....Maybe because I have more time now or it is just something to do I have really been working on both eyes open and point and shoot.

I will still squint down a fine bead for a particularly long hard shot with a pistol; but have found (for me) the way I hold the pistol effects the results about as much as anything; really have reevaluated my grip.. Sorry I do not have some videos at the ready for you to see but youtube has many demonstrating point and shoot by some really good shooters.

I will never be as accurate as before with a pistol and this I accept but to keep from getting bored and still shooting a pistol on occasion this has been a year of trying to teach an old dog a few new tricks. Getting old is not for sissies for sure.

 

[Fred Fuller]

A solution to this is called "practice"

Spoken like someone who has yet to encounter physical limitations.

Louis Awerbuck had a problem with some kind of encephalitis-like thing some years ago, and had problems seeing clearly for a while. He reported using ghost-ring sights on a Glock as the best available solution to his problem at the time.

I'd say, without having ever used either approach, that an RMR on a Glock is probably a better option these days. It's getting to be common enough that Brownells now offers RMR-cut Glock 17 and 19 replacement slides - http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=45253/Product/TACTICAL-RMR-SLIDE-FOR-GLOCK .

 

[ball3006]

I had 20-1000 nearsighted vision with cateracts for many years and I am 67 years old. I have been wearing glasses since I was 10. I also have glaucoma. I know what I am talking about when I say "practice" will help with vision/sights problems. I have had cataract surgery and now have 20/20 vision except within 4 feet. It makes shooting iron sights an adventure. So, I practice alot......chris3

 

[Sgt_R]

Chris,

Since you obviously speak from experience, I'm curious about your take on red dot sighted pistols (or rifles, for that matter).

Have you tried a good red dot? If not, why not? If so, did it help?

R

 

[Ankeny]

I spent a pile of money working on that very problem as a competition shooter. I had the lens in my right eye set for the distance to the front sight, left eye set for distance, tape one lens over, etc. I tried all of the last ditch efforts employed by competition shooters. I finally made the switch to optical sights on my competition guns.

Of course, none of that does me any good with my carry guns. But not to worry. A person can still shoot extremely well (fast with acceptable accuracy) with a rather "soft" (as in blurry) sight focus, especially on generous sized targets like an IPSC A box or an 8 inch plate. Just accept the minimal sight picture that is needed to get the hit and move on. In some cases, getting the gun in front of your face and looking though the sights is all that you will need.

The best solution for older eyes, as in those of us looking though the top section of trifocals (or progressive lenses), can indeed be some type of optical sight. Dot sights allow the shooter to maintain a target focus at all times. Just bring the dot to the target and let it rip. When shooting at speed you will learn to watch the dot trail under recoil, moving laterally, and so on. There are some very low profile optics available and they are worth the look.

 

[Headless]

assuming you mean on a defensive handgun, i'd go with crimson trace laser grips; you only have to focus on the target when using them and you can shoot without using the sights at all. Also has the benefit of working better when it's dim outside and hard to see/impossible to see your iron sights.

 

[krupparms]

As my sight gets worse I find I need help also. I use nite sights &crimson trace lasers on my handguns. I also use reddot sights & lasers. You will still may have some problems, but that seems to be part of getting old. Good luck, have fun, Be careful.

 

[Ankeny]

Yes, a laser can be a solution if a person's arm's length vision is absolutely in the toilet. Lasers also have the advantage in awkward shooting positions where you can not get the gun in front of your face. As far as fast target acquisition, be it a single target, moving target, or multiple targets, in my experience a red dot is faster.

 

[NoAlibi]

xXxplosive & Headless - I’ve ordered a CTLaser for the better-half’s J-frame bodyguard and I’ll be getting some hands-on experience soon.

conwict - In some of my vision correction combinations there might be a problem picking up the rear sight of the Ameriglos because they look relatively small to me. A lot of practice with the new gear is definitely a given.

Averageman & Sgt R - At your suggestions I looked at the RMR and I think that might be the way to go. However, with the price tag in the vicinity of 5 to 6 hundred dollars per handgun I would definitely have to try-before-I-buy. Don’t get me wrong; I don’t mind spending the money on something as frivolous as a device that could save my or my family’s lives, but if it doesn’t work for me I don’t want the hassle of trying to get rid of it without taking a financial bath.

Lee - Thanks for attempting to enlighten chris3 about the vagaries of getting older, which we now know that he has the experience, but not the solution I‘m looking for. Your comment bringing it to his attention did make me feel like I needed a visit to the Scooter Store!

Do you know if that ghost-ring sight is still available? I did see Novak’s semi ghost-ring rear sight and it looks interesting and much more affordable than the RMR.

Ankeny - I too had a contact lens fitted to give me a clear front sight picture (R +5.00) and used that with a L +3.50 in a mono-vision combination. It worked, but with a few drawbacks: the main drawback - causing major problems in landing airplanes - especially taildraggers.

Sky - “Getting old is no place for sissies”, Bette Davis. For sure, but them young whipper-snappers should know that there is another quote that says, “Don’t mess with an old man because he’ll kill you.” My experience as a homicide investigator gives that a ring of truth!

Another possibility: Looking at some archived posts, the XS 24/7 sight came up. I would think, but don’t know for sure, that with the big dot I could make a rapid upper COM (mediastinum - chest heart cavity) hit even without any glasses on. Anyone have experience with these?

 

[conw]

In some of my vision correction combinations there might be a problem picking up the rear sight of the Ameriglos because they look relatively small to me.

Just making sure you know the Hackathorns are not typical Ameriglos. Have you handled them installed in a slide? Otherwise I don't really see how you could tell (just saying).

Pick up the "rear sight?" Was this a typo? I personally would only use this language to describe "picking up the front sight" because I focus my vision on the front sight, not the rear sight.

 

[Sgt_R]

NoAlibi,

I have used the XS 24/7's. Had them on two different Glocks. Personally I'm not a huge fan; they are excellent for rapid front sight acquisition and close range COM hits, but they lack precision. Now, in your case, where your EYES lack precision - well, they may work fairly well actually. It'd be worth a try.

I agree with you about trying a red dot setup before you buy. An RMR is a big investment for something that may or may not work for you. In my case, I built a .22 plinker first:



That was 10 shots offhand from 25 yards, out of the first box of ammo ever fired from that pistol. Convinced me pretty fast.

R

 

[robinkevin]

I agree with the solution being practice. Practice to where you can accurately "point shoot" as in a dark area you may be able to see your target and identify your target as a threat that needs to be taken out but not be able to see your sights even with nite sites, glow sites could be low and need charge and lasers can fail. I worry enough about my firearm itself failing even if it is a slim to none chance, don't want to add any chance of failure in a sighting system. We fight as we train...

 

[Fred Fuller]

chris3,

Your perseverance in the face of vicissitude is admirable. And the more extended description of such is much more beneficial than what appears to be a throwaway one-liner.

========

Cooper commented as follows re. Awerbuck's GR arrangement -

We have messed around somewhat with the pistol ghost-ring pioneered by Louis Awerbuck, and now available from Steve Wickert in Prescott. It is, indeed, an aid to failing eyesight, but it poses its own problems. It seems okay for deflection, but not as good as conventional sights for elevation. We will bring an example to Whittington, where the faithful can try it for themselves. - http://www.dvc.org.uk/jeff/jeff3_12.html , Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, Vol. 3, No. 12; October 1995

On a quick search, I don't find any current info for Steve Wickert. Anyone have any information on him?

 

[conw]

I agree with Lee... Chris, in polite terms your one-liner made you sound a little bit slow. The explanation is intriguing and more convincing by far!

I have used the XS 24/7's. Had them on two different Glocks. Personally I'm not a huge fan; they are excellent for rapid front sight acquisition and close range COM hits, but they lack precision.

They are great inside of 3 feet or so...

 

[Fred Fuller]

I have two Big Dots on different 870s, one is the Express style rear/front on a 20" barrel that had factory rifle sights - the Big Dot sights fit on the factory bases. The other is the front bead only, that one is on an 18 1/8" barrel and is attached over the factory bead with J-B Weld. I like them very much on shotguns, I have not yet used them on handguns though.

 

[conw]

I was talking about handguns and have heard of lots of legitimately good shotgunners liking them on their shotguns. There are some people who like them on handguns but the consensus, and my experience, is that they trade an unacceptable amount of precision at moderate distance for a modicum of "speed" up close.

 

[ball3006]

Yes, I have used red dot sights on pistols since the 80s when I shot alot of bullseye matches. I have a couple on rifles now too. No matter what condition my eyes are/were, optic sights always worked just fine. Apature sights work ok too. I don't have anything with a ghost ring so I cannot comment on that. Most of my regular iron sighted rifles sit in the safe where I do shoot my apature sighted rifles, P14, 03A3, Garand, Enfield No4s, etc. It is hell getting old, don't go there. As I said before..........practice, practice, practice...............chris3

 

[NoAlibi]

conwict: "Just making sure you know the Hackathorns are not typical Ameriglos. Have you handled them installed in a slide? Otherwise I don't really see how you could tell (just saying)."

I looked up the Ameriglos online as you mentioned and the one I saw looked tiny. They did not say Hackathorn's, so I’ll have to go back for another look-see. Thanks for picking up on that.

conwict: "Pick up the "rear sight?" Was this a typo? I personally would only use this language to describe "picking up the front sight" because I focus my vision on the front sight, not the rear sight."

No typo - perhaps just a misunderstanding. I am painfully aware that the front sight is the most critical focal point using open sights as I mentioned in my response to Ankeny ("I too had a contact lens fitted to give me a clear front sight picture..."). All my training and experience with open sights means to me that you pick up both the front and the rear sights with the sharpest focus on the front sight. I could have be more clear.

 

[NoAlibi]

Sgt R: “I have used the XS 24/7's. Had them on two different Glocks. Personally I'm not a huge fan; they are excellent for rapid front sight acquisition and close range COM hits, but they lack precision. Now, in your case, where your EYES lack precision - well, they may work fairly well actually. It'd be worth a try.”

I don’t have a need for handgun precision in a lethal confrontation; what I’m looking for is survivability. Some loss of precision (combat accuracy) is acceptable at close ranges to gain speed since the first to perforate his target is usually the winner. My quest is not to be competitive, but to survive. If the ranges are longer then maybe those XS 24/7s will allow me to at least lay down a reasonably effective field of fire (Lots of fast loud noises in their general direction.) until I can get to cover. Your assessment may be correct- it's definitely worth a try.