Faster vs. Slower Pistol Powders in 40S&W

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MDof2

MDof2

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What's the general consensus or philosophy on faster versus slower burning pistol powders in the 40S&W cartridge?

I'm relatively new to reloading 40, and have only started with Titegroup and 800X and not branched out from that much. Have also staying pretty tight in the book and not gone up to max pressures yet. Having good results at this point right around the middle marks with Berry's 165g and 180g bullets.

Would appreciate any feedback, suggestions or ideas on playing with different / slower pistol powders and how they liked it, what it did to accuracy, etc.

Thanks all-
 
I started with Titegroup in .40, even used it in 10mm, but quickly went to slower powders. I prefer the softer muzzle blast and recoil of the slower powders like HS-6. Helped with practical accuracy, if not mechanical accuracy.
 
In general fast powders are used for light target loads or cases with very small volume. Fast powders will have a snappier feel and will not produce the faster velocities of a medium to slow burn powders. Med and slow powders will give the highest velocity, mag and +P loads. They also have more of a push feel than snappy. For light BE target shooting most all use fast powders for handguns.
 
That's along the same lines as what I was thinking but figured I'd cast a line to see if there was a guinea pig before me that swam across that river. :)
 
I help a buddy reload 40SW. We've tried everything from bullseye to blue dot in it. The best balance between economics and accuracy vs recoil ended up being the HS-6, universal, and be86 loads. 231 was close, but was still sharper recoil and smokier than the be86 with the same accuracy, and the loadings were so close as to be negligable in cost.
 
Thanks anotherweb. HS-6 is on my buy list if I can find it in stock. I'd like to try it against the 800x and the titegroup.

Appreciate the info.
 
I believe the "manuals" favor slow to medium burn powders overall for the higher pressure 40SW same with the 9mm. That said people use anything and everything.;)
 
I stick with medium burn rate powders for my 40, I have used HS6,power pistol,
aa#7,true blue,and silhouette, these all have worked well now I am stuck on WSF like it just fine.
 
So, I experiment a lot but only use published data. I like try different powders and work up loads. This is a work in progress for me, but this is what I think so far...

I've used powders from Bullseye to Longshot and some in between on the burn rate chart in 40. For general purpose loads, someplace near the middle of those two with good published load data is where I normally load. Powders listed from fast to slow. There is some overlap and any powders I've used in between are not listed.

General purpose/plinking:

hp38/w231 - cfe pistol

For target / mouse fart low recoil loads I go with a little faster powder range:

WST -W231/HP38

For gamestalker type full house loads with high end hallar points , I've used powders on the slower end:

CFE Pistol - Longshot

These are just generalizations and ranges I found that I liked while in different applications so far. The experiments continue..... Oh, and if you already know all this, dont tell me how it ends :).
 
I prefer slower powders, like Longshot, Unique and CFE-Pistol. They aren't as snappy and produce higher velocities.

I've recently started using CFE-Pistol, because I scored an 8 lb jug of it and it works very nicely with 155, 165 and 180 grain bullets.

Longshot takes a higher charge weight than CFE, but the velocity is not that much higher. CFE is more efficient.
 
I have loaded faster and slower powders in 40S&W and had good results for all of them. It probably depends on what what accuracy or velocities you are looking for.

I have only been loading mostly 165gr plated bullets, so I can't provide any input regarding 180gr plated bullets.

Accuracy testing for me were acceptable and similar for all these powders:
700-X
Unique
CFE Pistol
BE-86
Bullseye
PowerPistol
Longshot

The difference for me shows up in velocities and SD/ES numbers.
 
I started with titegroup as well, I still like it but only for 1 light load, 155 gr LSWC.

I now use HS-6 (lead bullets) and Longshot (plated bullets).
 
Accuracy? AA5, Silhouette, True Blue are the best I have found, with AA5 being the most accurate, but NOT for near max loads.
Safety? Slow powders, unless you stay at or below mid-range. The case is MUCH weaker than 9x19 cases and does not handle pressure spikes or charge weight errors well at all.
For me, AA5 is as fast as I'll go. If you shoot action pistol MINOR, fast powders and heavy bullets may be your choice, but don't play with .40 S&W.
I've had one case blow up on me in over 40 years, and that was a .40S&W case with fast powder at a weighed mid-range load.
 
Well I was using Unique until I ran out. I have gotten B-86 and WSF and will try these. My thinking is to try and stay around the Unique/Power Pistol powder burn rate. I have some Everglades 165 grn. to test with these powders. I assume the B-86 will be more for practice and etc. The WSF appears better suited for full power loads. Well see how this works out though. I also will not approach maximum in my testing.
 
MDof2 said:
What's the general consensus or philosophy on faster versus slower burning pistol powders in the 40S&W cartridge?
Click to expand...
I have loaded 40S&W with Bullseye/Red Dot/Promo/Clays/WST/Titegroup/N320/Green Dot/W231/HP-38/Unique/Universal/BE-86/Power Pistol/WSF/Herco/HS-6/AutoComp/CFE Pistol and found:

- Unique/Universal/BE-86/Power Pistol and slower burning powders are better suited for 40S&W especially for higher velocity full power loads

- W231/HP-38 and faster burning powders tend to produce more snappier recoil and slower burn rate powders to tend to produce less snappy recoil.

- Slower burn rate powders need to be pushed high-to-near max load data to produce more efficient powder burn and chamber pressures for accuracy

- Faster burn rate powders can produce lower velocity/pressure target loads that are still accurate
figured I'd cast a line to see if there was a guinea pig before me that swam across that river.
Click to expand...
During the component shortage of 2010 when popular powders were hard to come by, since I shot 40S&W with faster burning powders many in my group buy suggested I be the guinea pig and test Promo using Red Dot load data (as suggested by Alliant) and had workable success with jacketed/plated/lead bullets - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6509911#post6509911

Because of snappier recoil, Red Dot/Promo would not be my first choice for 40S&W but if more popular powders were not available, I would not hesitate to use them at lower target velocities/recoil. With 180 gr jacketed/plated/lead/coated lead bullets, around 4.0 gr produced balance load between accuracy and less snappy recoil for me.
Titegroup and 800X ... Berry's 165g and 180g bullets.

Would appreciate any feedback, suggestions or ideas on playing with different / slower pistol powders and how they liked it, what it did to accuracy, etc.
Click to expand...
- While I have loaded 40S&W with WSF (full power loads) and W231/HP-38 (lighter target loads) for decades, Herco and BE-86 have become my favorites for producing accurate mid to high range loads.

There's no current published load data for Herco and 40S&W but I referenced 2004 Alliant load data for 180 gr Berry's plated and MBC lead bullets with good results - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=743416

- While SAAMI max OAL/COL for 40S&W is 1.135", depending on your barrel's leade/freebore length, using longer OAL that will reliably feed/chamber from the magazine will decrease gas leakage and produce greater accuracy. On the Herco thread, 180 gr TCFP bullet for my barrel tested 1.149" as max OAL and 1.145" as max working OAL and I settled with 1.142" as my final working OAL - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9362819#post9362819

Shot groups with Herco and RMR 180 gr HM RNFP loaded longer at 1.155" - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9924922#post9924922

attachment.php


Shot groups with BE-86 and RMR 180 gr HM RNFP loaded at 1.155"

attachment.php
 
I use HS6 and Universal, seem to be the 2 powders that produce a nice manageable recoil and work very well.. Tried 700x, which meters really tough thru my hornady powder measure and WSF, both even though loaded at the beginning load data, seemed to produce a real snappy recoil that I was not happy with. Was using Berrys 155gr FP
Glad to hear the CFE is a lower burning powder, want to try that.
 
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I just started loading 40s&w, so my experience is minimal. Sooooo after much research I went to buy some powder, none of the powders I wanted were available. The guy behind the counter sais CFE Pistol was one that a freind of his was having great sucess with. I bought and after a few test loads, found one that worked for me. I will be buying more and using it also in the .45 ACP also.
 
I like the slower propellants to tame the snappy recoil myself. AA-5 is what I like best with the various weight lead bullets I usually load. Finding some of these days is the trick.
 
I just fired some 180 grain Berry's with 6.3 CFE-Pistol and they shot really well. This powder is available and it works well.

The only downside, its dense and does not fill the case much at all.

From 27 yards off-hand, I was able to keep all the rounds inside of a 6" black circle.
 
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