Fastest open (iron) sight that is also precise

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3Crows

3Crows

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I just bought yet another Marlin 1895. A new GBL showed up at the hardware/outdoor store back home and I was looking at it up on the shelf. It had been freshly unboxed as the box was still on the counter. The old codger saw me straining to see it so he handed it to me and the darn thing stuck to my hands like Velcro and Super Glue. I just could not shake it off so it had to come home with me. I had resolved not to scope this Marlin as I have three other 1895s with (quick detach rings and open sights) scopes (a JM, a Rem-Marlin SBL and now two Ruger-Marlin SBL/GBL).

But the provided buckhorn and traditional Marlin hooded front sight as much as I want it to just does not work well for me, especially in dim light. Now, either of my two 1895 SBLs have ghost ring sights and an open front sight. Those are easy to see and FAST but not precise, especially beyond 100 yards. I guess I could put inserts in the ghost rings to increase precision at the cost of speed but the front sights are as well designed for quick pick up, not precision.

I have a 39A with tang peep sight and it is SLOW but precise and I have another 39A with a Skinner and dependent upon aperture chosen it can be fast or precise but not both.

I may just have to scope my new GBL with QR rings and add a XS forward rail and install XS or Skinner sights for when the scope is not mounted. I find scopes, 1X or Scout types to be very fast on target and precise enough. But I was sort of not wanting to scope this rifle initially. I am conflicted.

What is your best choice for open sights that are precise, fast and work with older eyes?

3C
 
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I've a '94 Marlin .44 Mag as my deer carbine; it has a 4x scope, primarily as a quick check on a deer's antler count. But it is a hunting arm.
I've a '73 and a '92 with tangs, and still think that is your best bet. Accuracy with peeps is directly proportional to aperture size; the Marbles on mine came with three sizes, plus using the threaded opening itself.
Lever action carbines are field accurate, but not bench guns. How much speed/accuracy do you need to be happy? We have a tie plate dangling over the river, 85 yards from our camp porch. I can generally ring it off my hind legs with either of the tang sighted carbines, and actually do better snapping it to my shoulder and firing.
I have the medium aperture for general use, and the really fine one for initial zero.
BTW, the tang sight buys some extra sight radius as well, which does helps accuracy.
These levers (ricer Winchesters) are entirely for my entertainment, and nicely made machines. They are fun for reactive targets; in addition to the dangling plates (different sizes/distances) at camp, or clay birds on a berm at maybe 40 yards.
If you want minute of angle, you probably want something else. Just enjoy your new rifle for what it is. BTW, festooning a 19th century carbine with tacticool stuff, meh.... ;)
BTW, it's my intent to replace the currently blanked open, barrel sights with folding Marbles, simply as a really up close and quick sight. It won't be as accurate as the tang, but it will be somewhat faster at really short distances. This might work for you as well.
Moon
ETA- don't want to belabor this, but I cut my teeth as a bullseye pistol guy. Got a 4" Kit Gun, slicked up the action, and taught myself to shoot double action...but not at a 3" bull at 50'. Got a little metal man, the same size as a B29 silhouette (half size), and put it at maybe 25 yards. Learned to be satisfied hammering the snot out of that; hit him center mass so often he developed a permanent bow. Field accuracy, in a hellfire hurry. Same thing you need with your new carbine.
M
 
As far as true "open" sights - a notch or V, as opposed to "closed" irons like a ghost ring or aperture - nothing is as fast and accurate as a plain notch and blade. A V with a bead is faster, for me, but not nearly as accurate.

Ghost rings are, again for me, both faster and more accurate, and I like them a great deal. They are about as fast as a low-powered scope, but not as accurate. A smaller aperture increases accuracy but reduces speed.

Frankly, I think you're just experiencing reality ( :p ) in that scopes are objectively superior to irons in most ways. There are some guns which simply shouldn't be seen in public with glass, though, and for those ones a ghost ring is the answer.
 
Flat blades post and a moderately sized rear aperture are about the best ive found for any iron sights.

I don't like tang sights, i want the aperture about 4-5" from my eye, so ive always gone with a receiver sight.
I still prefer pretty much any optic tho.
 
halfmoonclip said:
Lever action carbines are field accurate, but not bench guns. How much speed/accuracy do you need to be happy?
Click to expand...

Thank you. I just want to add though, the Rem-Marlin has taken deer as configured to 250 yards DRT with the Hornady Lever ammo, I would probably go 300 yards with it. I now load my own using 405 grain cast lead bullets. My furthest recent shot was a hog in Oklahoma at about 175 yards with my home brew 405 grain and H4198 at about 1300 fps. He dropped like a stone. I cannot speak for the GBL yet, but either of the two SBLs can often shoot MOA (with the Remington 405 and the Hornady and a couple of my home brews as well) from a bag but will string if they get hot. As you say, these are hunting rifles and not bench rest shooters :). Both SBLs below retain their ghost rings:

Screen-Shot-2022-11-01-at-11-03-53-AM.png

The JM 1895 is on loan to my brother along with another JM 336T and I have a couple of his favorites to ensure I get mine back ;), held as hostage lol.

The Rem-Mar is the one I grab, I bought it in Alaska and carried it for defense when hiking. It is heavy of course but not much more so than a hand cannon. When I first got it, it would shoot all over the place. Especially after getting warm. I found that the mag tube was prying downward on the barrel at the fore stock band. The band was pushing hard on the barrel and bowing. I took a file to it and then some paper on a dowel the same diameter as the barrel and relieved the tension. That cured that issue completely.

3C
 
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Fast and precise are opposite ends of the same scale. Myself for still hunting or jump shooting I like either a large opening peep sight or a wide shallow v sight with a gold centerline. Both are quick and at shorter ranges very precise.
 
I am thinking after mulling it over some either the Skinner Marlin "Trapper" front and rear combo or the XS front and rear set. Both the Skinner and the XS allow no aperture or a couple of different sizes smaller. Then purchase the forward (partial rail from XS) at a later date to allow a forward scout mounted optic or RDS if needed. Still thinking ;).

The Skinner set is OE on the Ruger-Marlin Trapper and the XS system was OE on the Rem-Marlin SBL. The Ruger-Marlin wears a proprietary system similar to the XS but with a tritium front sight tube.
 
l fastest would be a bead. Most precise would be aperture’s front and rear. The rest are somewhere in between.

Post and notch being the most popular compromise but they are not all equal. Easily seen in the difference between rifle and pistol sights, as far as post/notch differences, as well as the distance between the two.
 
9x56MS said:
Fast and precise are opposite ends of the same scale.
Click to expand...
Truer words were never spoken. Take the sights on a typical large caliber double rifle. A broad rear sight with a shallow "V" notch and a post or bead front sight. Very fast to acquire a charging animal at close range but pretty much worthless for good accuracy beyond fifty yards of so. Compare them to , say, the sights on a Garand. Precise windage and elevation adjustments, and capable of superb accuracy... but not very useful in putting down a charging pachyderm.
 
No idea which could be fastest.

My PTR-91s’ sights work really well.

The only serious rifle battle in this area has been the Battle of Shiloh, and there were Far worse problems than quick sight alignment.

Supplies from riverboats were far more significant.
 
I guess I Ieft out a criteria though I mentioned it. I have older eyes and can only bring one or the other in focus, front or rear. As far as fast and precise, realizing there is exclusivity here, a good compromise.

Not sure what the Battle of Shiloh has to do with my question ;) ----.

I am a hunter, well, mostly hogs now and the occasional deer hunt. They have divided up the deer seasons into such ridiculous niches that it is almost not worth the effort. What is next, a sling shot and rock throwing season?

Comes with a .230 and a .191 aperture:

https://xssights.com/products/marlin-ghost-ring-sights-sights-only.html

And then add this (maybe), the Lever Scout length rail:

https://xssights.com/products/marlin-optic-mounts-no-sights-included.html

Or Skinner Express (OE on Trapper):

http://skinnersights.com/1895_sight_4.html

And Skinner Bear Buster front (OE on Trapper):

http://skinnersights.com/front_sights_5.html

And still add the Lever Scout rail possibly for a scout scope optic or RDS.

Or leave the dang rifle as is, add a scope rail (not Picatinny) that is low enough it does not interfere with the existing sights and optional low power optic. Like I did here on my 336SS. I got that rail from RPP and they no longer carry it. It has a central groove that allows my existing buckhorn sight to be used with the scope popped off (Warne QR rings):

IMG-1547.jpg
 
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3Crows said:
I guess I Ieft out a criteria though I mentioned it. I have older eyes and can only bring one or the other in focus, front or rear. As far as fast and precise, realizing there is exclusivity here, a good compromise.

[…]

I am a hunter, well, mostly hogs now and the occasional deer hunt.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you’re describing a need for a red dot on a turnbull mount to a Tee…
 
Varminterror said:
Sounds like you’re describing a need for a red dot on a turnbull mount to a Tee…
Click to expand...

Interesting. But I do not think there is one for the Marlin 1895? I could just mount a red dot to the Lever Scout rail I am considering.
 
True, but 3 Crows asked about effective, not about looks.

A red dot, or if you are astigmatic, a 1-4, 6, or 8 scope will be your best all around choice. I know you did not want to hear that, but that's what would be the combination of fast and accurate.

If you do want to go traditional, a full buckhorn (basically an aperture) rear with your current front sight is about the best answer.
 
3Crows said:
Interesting. But I do not think there is one for the Marlin 1895? I could just mount a red dot to the Lever Scout rail I am considering.
Click to expand...

The Turnbull mount for the Win 94 uses the same dovetail as the Marlins. The difference is only in the rounded base, which can either be sanded or bedded to fit other contours.

I haven’t tried mine on an 1895 - and haven’t measured the contour difference between the 336 and the 1895 (same rifles, different label), but I use a Turnbull mount on a Marlin 336, and briefly used it on an 1894, with no modifications to the contour.

Burris also makes a receiver mount for Marlins (which are already D&T’d), which is more svelte and sits lower than adding a rail plus a pic mounted red dot.
 
They look better replacing the rear sight.

CFA36BA3-3C50-463E-8FFF-57DEE242DBA5.jpeg

But become noticeably less precise than the 3 or 8 MOA dot when the battery is dead.

I have played with a few on levers but generally leave the factory sights in place so I can go back to them, if I need to.

F17DC495-770F-4FA0-996E-5D5ABCDD105D.jpeg
 
3Crows said:
Comes with a .230 and a .191 aperture:

https://xssights.com/products/marlin-ghost-ring-sights-sights-only.html
Click to expand...

My 1894 came with the XS rail and sight system just like the Remlin on the top of your first photo. I changed out the standard ghost ring for a threaded one and use Williams long shank screw in apertures (which I have several for other guns).

For my eyes, the standard XS aperture is just too large. There are other ghost ring set ups with slightly smaller apertures that work with my eyes better. For instance, the factory ghost ring on my Ruger GSR is downright perfect for my vision.

By installing a large aperture Williams, I can replicate the ghost ring size that suits my vision best. Dang if I can remember what size that is as I'm far from home right now and can't measure it.

As you can see, I've installed the aperture backwards. I get the same effect visually as installing it the other way and the aperture itself isn't hanging off the back of the receiver like some twig waiting to get snapped off.

And yes, that is a red dot sneaking into the photo from the right. Which I've come to prefer over a 2x to 3x scout scope.

(That step in the rail is caused by a photo rendering glitch from me cropping and resizing the photo.)
View attachment 1112345
 
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entropy said:
True, but 3 Crows asked about effective, not about looks.

A red dot, or if you are astigmatic, a 1-4, 6, or 8 scope will be your best all around choice. I know you did not want to hear that, but that's what would be the combination of fast and accurate.

If you do want to go traditional, a full buckhorn (basically an aperture) rear with your current front sight is about the best answer.
Click to expand...

I agree with the scope recommendation.

I'd do the function over form and go with a LPVO. I've spent quite a bit of time and rounds through one in 3Gun matches. An RDS "might" be faster due to not having to sweat parallax, but it's no where near as versatile. I haven't seen any one in a match running an RDS as a primary optic in a long while. A 1-4X with an illuminated reticle covers a lot of ground. Very fast up close, and the ability to zoom when you need to make one of those "thread the needle" type shots.
 
Good thread.

Old guys with old eyes trying to stick to iron sights AND retain precision and speed are kidding themselves.

I still shoot irons occasionally, but for serious shooting, I want a red dot or a scope…


ETA: Actually, I do shoot iron sights a fair amount as I shoot my G44 .22 every range trip. I can hit with it, but I sorely wish it had an optic.

But my other non optic rifles and pistols don’t see much action these days….
 
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