Father who has a gun near a child is a criminal?
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ArfinGreebly
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Assumptions
I'm seeing a lot of assumptions here.
There are simply not enough facts in the story, and the facts that ARE presented are tilted to demonize the gun.
You don't get to know how long the gun was there (hid it there when the cops arrived?). You don't get to know the nature of the disturbance. You don't any bloody context at all beyond "child, gun, pillow, abuse."
Story is broken.
Somebody go get better facts.
K? Thkx.
I'm seeing a lot of assumptions here.
There are simply not enough facts in the story, and the facts that ARE presented are tilted to demonize the gun.
You don't get to know how long the gun was there (hid it there when the cops arrived?). You don't get to know the nature of the disturbance. You don't any bloody context at all beyond "child, gun, pillow, abuse."
Story is broken.
Somebody go get better facts.
K? Thkx.
fearless leader
Member
Quote:
Do people actually sleep with a loaded gun under their pillow? That seems mighty dangerous for someone of any age.
As the survivor of 2 home invasions, I can tell you "HELL YES!!"
I FL it is unlawful to leave a loaded firearm in easy access of a minor.
It is also unlawful to loan, give or sell a firearm to a minor under a certain age, with some exceptions.
Do people actually sleep with a loaded gun under their pillow? That seems mighty dangerous for someone of any age.
As the survivor of 2 home invasions, I can tell you "HELL YES!!"
I FL it is unlawful to leave a loaded firearm in easy access of a minor.
It is also unlawful to loan, give or sell a firearm to a minor under a certain age, with some exceptions.
BobbyQuickdraw
Member
I'll play the Devil's Advocate.
The child is afforded all the same rights as an adult under the Constitution. There is no age qualification for the Bill of Rights. If the child knows how to use the weapon, perhaps it is a safety issue. How young is too young to defend yourself? Attack a puppy and the puppy will bite you, it doesn't know its too young to fight back.
We don't know what kind of pistol it was, or what condition it was in. It had a mag full of hollow points. Ok. Could be a DAO or a striker fired gun. I've slept with a Glock in the bed with me when I travel cross-country. Not under my pillow, but in the bed. Ain't no place closer!
And as for the people saying that getting into a fight with a loaded gun in the house is bad - I'll go ahead and take from that that none of you keep your guns loaded and none of you have ever had an argument or been in a fight. Right? Because otherwise, you're just as guilty. That loaded gun in your night stand? Ever spank your kid? Looks like you just "Hit a child while a loaded gun was nearby."
The fact that he got into a fight while there was a loaded gun in the house should mean nothing. He didn't use it. The fact that he got into a fight with his step-father is just that, a fight with his step-father; fairly common.
Why the gun was under the kids pillow - I'll admit, thats kind of odd, but we don't know anything about this family, maybe the kid is a crack shot.
The child is afforded all the same rights as an adult under the Constitution. There is no age qualification for the Bill of Rights. If the child knows how to use the weapon, perhaps it is a safety issue. How young is too young to defend yourself? Attack a puppy and the puppy will bite you, it doesn't know its too young to fight back.
We don't know what kind of pistol it was, or what condition it was in. It had a mag full of hollow points. Ok. Could be a DAO or a striker fired gun. I've slept with a Glock in the bed with me when I travel cross-country. Not under my pillow, but in the bed. Ain't no place closer!
And as for the people saying that getting into a fight with a loaded gun in the house is bad - I'll go ahead and take from that that none of you keep your guns loaded and none of you have ever had an argument or been in a fight. Right? Because otherwise, you're just as guilty. That loaded gun in your night stand? Ever spank your kid? Looks like you just "Hit a child while a loaded gun was nearby."
The fact that he got into a fight while there was a loaded gun in the house should mean nothing. He didn't use it. The fact that he got into a fight with his step-father is just that, a fight with his step-father; fairly common.
Why the gun was under the kids pillow - I'll admit, thats kind of odd, but we don't know anything about this family, maybe the kid is a crack shot.
That guy is a fool.
About leaving guns around kids being ok, .....GET REAL!! 6 years old is a FIRST GRADER for gods sake. They just can’t understand the seriousness of things at that age.
You don't let kids that age cross the street with out help much less give them access to loaded guns.
That, right there, IS how kids end up shooting them selves.
About leaving guns around kids being ok, .....GET REAL!! 6 years old is a FIRST GRADER for gods sake. They just can’t understand the seriousness of things at that age.
You don't let kids that age cross the street with out help much less give them access to loaded guns.
That, right there, IS how kids end up shooting them selves.
BobbyQuickdraw
Member
You know the police tasered a 6 year old boy once, so maybe the girl needs the gun for defense against police tasering - being whimsical.
stevereno1
Member
anyone who sleeps with a loaded gun under their pillow is asking for trouble. Any Father who lets a six year old sleep with a loaded gun under his pillow will soo be burying his six year old son. Don't be stupid people!
stevereno1
Member
"The child is afforded all the same rights as an adult under the Constitution"
A child has very few rights until they reach 18 years old. the parent's have rights over the child, as long as they do not break any laws. No freedom of speech, no freedom of assembly, no freedom to arm themselves, etc...
A child has very few rights until they reach 18 years old. the parent's have rights over the child, as long as they do not break any laws. No freedom of speech, no freedom of assembly, no freedom to arm themselves, etc...
bluestarlizzard
Member
personally i draw the line before putting a loaded gun under a six year olds pillow. i don't even put one under my own pillow. i am a restless sleeper and being within reach is better then it falling off the bed somewhere.
lots missing in this story. as though the reporter could'nt figure out wiether to write about a gun under a pillow or the actual crime commited that night.
lots missing in this story. as though the reporter could'nt figure out wiether to write about a gun under a pillow or the actual crime commited that night.
TCB in TN
Member
That is the ascertation by our gov. but the "age of acountability" was not always 18. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think that 6 is the point where I would be giving my child a loaded gun, but in the past grown was a more subjective thing, depending upon the judgement of the parents/family of the child's readiness.
Robert Hairless
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ArfinGreebly:
We don' need no steenkin' facts. We got rules about how everybody is supposed to live and think and behave:
Somebody here needs to teach Massad Ayoob he been violatin' the rules. Here's what Ayoob says in "Of Kids and Guns":
Annie Oakley was hunting for the family's pot by age nine. It seems safe to assume that her mom didn't awaken Annie on her ninth birthday with "Happy Birthday, Annie. This here's a gun. Go out and kill some rabbits so we can eat today." I don't know if she was allowed to cross the street by herself at age six. I do know that my kids were taught to do it by that age. I don't know if Annie shot herself or someone else at an early age but there's no record of her having done so. My kids din't shoot no one at all, not never. Ayoob's kids appear not to have shot themselves or anyone else either.
It was common for kids unlucky enough to be born before the current generation of parents possessed of exalted wisdom to be raised with guns in the home and to learn how to use them very young. Have so many people from so many generations been so wrong?
Of course I'm not saying that every kid should have a gun under his or her pillow at age six or at any other age. What I am saying is that people who don't like it when anti-gun people foist their rules on everyone else look mighty, mighty foolish when they do the same. Just my opinion of course. I'm not smart enough to make rules for other people, especially not about how they must raise their kids.
We don' need no steenkin' facts. We got rules about how everybody is supposed to live and think and behave:
- A six year old child should not be near no gun.
- A gun don' belong under no pillow.
- A gun under a six year old child's pillow will kill the child.
- A six-year-old child will shoot someone.
- A six-year-old child is too young to cross the street by himself.
Somebody here needs to teach Massad Ayoob he been violatin' the rules. Here's what Ayoob says in "Of Kids and Guns":
Annie Oakley was hunting for the family's pot by age nine. It seems safe to assume that her mom didn't awaken Annie on her ninth birthday with "Happy Birthday, Annie. This here's a gun. Go out and kill some rabbits so we can eat today." I don't know if she was allowed to cross the street by herself at age six. I do know that my kids were taught to do it by that age. I don't know if Annie shot herself or someone else at an early age but there's no record of her having done so. My kids din't shoot no one at all, not never. Ayoob's kids appear not to have shot themselves or anyone else either.
It was common for kids unlucky enough to be born before the current generation of parents possessed of exalted wisdom to be raised with guns in the home and to learn how to use them very young. Have so many people from so many generations been so wrong?
Of course I'm not saying that every kid should have a gun under his or her pillow at age six or at any other age. What I am saying is that people who don't like it when anti-gun people foist their rules on everyone else look mighty, mighty foolish when they do the same. Just my opinion of course. I'm not smart enough to make rules for other people, especially not about how they must raise their kids.
siglite
Member
Just based on subjective odds, I'd say it's unlikely this six year old girl had any business sleeping with a loaded pistol under her head. My kid has about 65 students in his grade at his school. Two of them hunt. And my son's the only one I know of that's ever had any training a combat sidearm. He's a pretty darned good shot with a sig P series. But he's 10. At six, he was in Red Rider land. I wouldn't have dreamed of leaving a loaded pistol under his "command and control." So, based on my tiny view of the world and kids today, I really think my son's a rarity. Which leads me to believe that it's unlikely that this girl's a ninja.
I don't think it mentions where the kid was sleeping in the article. Here's my best guess (completely uneducated) at what's happened here. I'm guessing the girl crashed on dad's bed or on a couch or somewhere else dad stashes the gun (That's it's own can of worms) when the popo came through the door. Maybe she was asleep on the couch, and the thing was down between the arm of the couch under the cushion. And her pillow was over the crack where the thing was stashed. Who knows. The article doesn't tell us. But it's probably safe to assume that the OMGKIDZGUNZOMG factor in the story is a bit overblown.
I don't think it mentions where the kid was sleeping in the article. Here's my best guess (completely uneducated) at what's happened here. I'm guessing the girl crashed on dad's bed or on a couch or somewhere else dad stashes the gun (That's it's own can of worms) when the popo came through the door. Maybe she was asleep on the couch, and the thing was down between the arm of the couch under the cushion. And her pillow was over the crack where the thing was stashed. Who knows. The article doesn't tell us. But it's probably safe to assume that the OMGKIDZGUNZOMG factor in the story is a bit overblown.
Jeffreii
Member
Google assigned this story with this id (ncl): 1125967427 so you should be able to get more stories as they are spidered/released, however, they have not really found anything yet that is not a duplicate or provide much more info.
So far it seems like all the news reports are just modifying the same basic info and trying to make it in their own wording.
http://news.google.com/news?ncl=1125967427
64 stories in all not showing exact duplicates (add &scoring=d to the end of the url if you want them all)
So far it seems like all the news reports are just modifying the same basic info and trying to make it in their own wording.
http://news.google.com/news?ncl=1125967427
64 stories in all not showing exact duplicates (add &scoring=d to the end of the url if you want them all)
BobbyQuickdraw
Member
"A child has very few rights until they reach 18 years old. the parent's have rights over the child, as long as they do not break any laws. No freedom of speech, no freedom of assembly, no freedom to arm themselves, etc..."
So a child under the age of 18 has no freedom of speech or freedom of assembly and they can be searched without warrants? Au contraire, my friend. The Constitution affords those legal rights upon every citizen. The government has put certain limitations upon it, but did not strip them. A person under 18 can possess a gun in many states, they just can't buy it themselves.
You also raise the point that the parent's have rights over the child - this is true. And so if the father decides that his daughter can handle a loaded firearm, that is his decision. And further, there are no laws saying that you can't let a son/daughter handle a weapon while the adult accompanies them and permits them. So a father in the house giving his daughter a handgun, no matter what age, is not illegal, despite how stupid it may be.
-Devil's Advocate, signing off!
So a child under the age of 18 has no freedom of speech or freedom of assembly and they can be searched without warrants? Au contraire, my friend. The Constitution affords those legal rights upon every citizen. The government has put certain limitations upon it, but did not strip them. A person under 18 can possess a gun in many states, they just can't buy it themselves.
You also raise the point that the parent's have rights over the child - this is true. And so if the father decides that his daughter can handle a loaded firearm, that is his decision. And further, there are no laws saying that you can't let a son/daughter handle a weapon while the adult accompanies them and permits them. So a father in the house giving his daughter a handgun, no matter what age, is not illegal, despite how stupid it may be.
-Devil's Advocate, signing off!
precisionshootist
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Don't trust the MSM, EVER
So maybe Mr. Johnson was made aware of possible confrontation with the stepfather, so he takes his home protection piece out of its holster takes the magazine out and tosses the empty weapon under HIS pillow. He does this because he does not want to be armed when arguing with his unreasonable step father. The dispute escalates and step father starts a physical altercation and Mr. Johnson defends himself. Stepfather calls the police and when the police arrive Mr. Johnson realizes he is still wearing the holster and the loaded magazine is in his pocket. When the police arrive at the door Mr. Johnson removes the holster and magazine from his pocket and places it on the counter. Somewhere after the initial start of this situation Mr. Johnson’s 6 year old go’s into the master bedroom and falls asleep with the unloaded gun under the pillow. When the police asked Mr. Johnson why he had the gun he gave a perfectly reasonable and legal answer.
Bottom line; don’t believe anything reported in the MSM. They have an agenda and it has nothing to do with reporting the truth. It is very likely the statement “asleep in a bed with a loaded handgun underneath the pillow” was carefully worded because it was NOT the Childs bed.
Bottom line #2, Our society is becoming saturated with laws. The police have way too many “tools in their chest” in which to charge otherwise law abiding people with crimes and way too many of these crimes are now felonies. This was NOT a crime. Irresponsible maybe, but not a crime.
Rant Off
So maybe Mr. Johnson was made aware of possible confrontation with the stepfather, so he takes his home protection piece out of its holster takes the magazine out and tosses the empty weapon under HIS pillow. He does this because he does not want to be armed when arguing with his unreasonable step father. The dispute escalates and step father starts a physical altercation and Mr. Johnson defends himself. Stepfather calls the police and when the police arrive Mr. Johnson realizes he is still wearing the holster and the loaded magazine is in his pocket. When the police arrive at the door Mr. Johnson removes the holster and magazine from his pocket and places it on the counter. Somewhere after the initial start of this situation Mr. Johnson’s 6 year old go’s into the master bedroom and falls asleep with the unloaded gun under the pillow. When the police asked Mr. Johnson why he had the gun he gave a perfectly reasonable and legal answer.
Bottom line; don’t believe anything reported in the MSM. They have an agenda and it has nothing to do with reporting the truth. It is very likely the statement “asleep in a bed with a loaded handgun underneath the pillow” was carefully worded because it was NOT the Childs bed.
Bottom line #2, Our society is becoming saturated with laws. The police have way too many “tools in their chest” in which to charge otherwise law abiding people with crimes and way too many of these crimes are now felonies. This was NOT a crime. Irresponsible maybe, but not a crime.
Rant Off
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I was thinking the same thing considering they said "finding his 6-year-old daughter asleep in a bed with a loaded handgun underneath the pillow." Didn't say HER bed . Would it have made a difference if the gun was in a nightstand and she went and crashed on her dad's bed? Did she even know it was there?
Again , not enough facts . People seem to be jumping on the 'ol high horse on this one without knowing what truly transpired .
I know we should be completely livid about what this guy did , based on the article . Because we all know journalists never have an agenda/opinion that they use to twist the story , and they are always right with the 'facts" .
XDKingslayer
member
It's part of Florida's Child Access Prevention laws of 1989.
Under the Florida law, it is a crime to store or leave a loaded firearm within the reach or easy access of a minor, defined as persons under the age of 16.
The law applies only if the minor gains access to the gun. The statute also specifically states that the law does not apply if the firearm is stored in a locked box, secured with a trigger lock, or obtained by a minor through unlawful entry. The penalty for unlawful access is a misdemeanor unless the minor injures himself or someone else, in which case the penalty is a felony.
Under the Florida law, it is a crime to store or leave a loaded firearm within the reach or easy access of a minor, defined as persons under the age of 16.
The law applies only if the minor gains access to the gun. The statute also specifically states that the law does not apply if the firearm is stored in a locked box, secured with a trigger lock, or obtained by a minor through unlawful entry. The penalty for unlawful access is a misdemeanor unless the minor injures himself or someone else, in which case the penalty is a felony.
Ash
Member
Hmmm, my grandfather kept a loaded Remington Model 11 in the corner beside the front door (when the door was open, it covered the shotgun). They lived in the country and had need to take out armadillos or rabid raccoons or feral cats. I had access to that shotgun my entire life but never messed with it.
That was the panhandle of Florida.
Ash
That was the panhandle of Florida.
Ash
Robert Hairless
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Isn't there something really unpleasant about people who make rules for how other people must parent their children?
My mother kept a drawer full of sharp, deadly knives in her kitchen. They were there when I was born, there while I was growing up, and there long after I left my parents' home about fifty years ago.
Throughout my childhood my father kept a set of keys to his car on his bedroom nightstand where I and other children could take them.
None of the kids took the knives and nobody stabbed anyone at all. None of the kids took the car keys and stole the car.
We grew up in an unenlightened time with unenlightened parents. All they had was a magic word denied to parents today. The magic word was "No." They had other strange powers too.
After reading a great many threads like this one in gun forums I have begun thinking about the possibility of suing my parents for child abuse. Unfortunately they are dead. I used the same magic word when raising my own children, so I hope they don't sue me for child abuse.
XDKingslayer
member
You guys were rebels.
I just ran with scissors....
I just ran with scissors....
BobbyQuickdraw
Member
"
The law applies only if the minor gains access to the gun."
So as long as the child doesn't touch the gun, you could keep it anywhere you want. Brilliant laws!
The law applies only if the minor gains access to the gun."
So as long as the child doesn't touch the gun, you could keep it anywhere you want. Brilliant laws!
Erebus
Member
I can't believe that some people are justifying letting 6 year olds sleep with loaded guns.
When you were 6 years old did you have your own set of keys to the car and set of kitchen knives?
There is a difference between having them in the house and putting them in the child's hands.
When you were 6 years old did you have your own set of keys to the car and set of kitchen knives?
I would love to hear what he has to say about letting 6 year olds sleep with loaded handguns. I'm pretty sure he isn't gonna like the idea.
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