Favorite alloy for 44 special

[Bazoo]

I’ve got a favorite Ruger Blackhawk in 44 special, and I’ve been playing with different bullets and subsequently different alloys.

Using loads below the 15,500 level, I’ve been able to successfully use wheel weight alloy and 50/50 ww/Pb (ww/soft) alloys with the RCBS 44-250-k Keith style bullet. Both with a little added tin for casting ease.

Using 50/50 alloy it seems the pressure starts gets too much at the 15,500 level or so. A charge of 5.5 unique doesn’t lead, but as I move towards the skeeter load, leading increases with each increase in powder charge. By the time I get to 7.5 grains leading is severe.

I mostly shoot standard pressure or lighter loads though and I don’t see where it makes much difference as to which alloy to use.

What’s everyone else’s experiences and what alloys vs pressure do you like for

 

[Targa]

When I was using wheel weights, I would use 10lbs of them mixed with 2.5 lbs of Rotometals Superhard and like you said some tin for fill out. This gave me a air cooled BHN pushing 17 and that worked very well for full power loads to include .454 Casull.

I have since replaced the wheel weights with range lead (same ratios) with a BHN of 15 which has worked just as well.

 

[Shooterbob]

What diameter are you sizing to will also have an effect. I don’t really buy into the pressure limit thing . I have loaded full house loads in 44 mag with minimal to no leading. Check your throat diameter size to that . And you can always use less pure lead to harden your alloy if needed. Good luck and have fun. Also castbollits is a great place for cast questions

 

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the replies.

I’m a member over on cast bullets. I’m not new to casting or using cast bullets. I just wanna talk about it.

I’m asking what alloys y’all like for 44 special, and by extension, what pressure you use it at.

 

[dannyd]

I use what is basically 1 to 30 has a bu of about 10. Now I am shooting mouse fart loads. Just for paper. I run the Keith 255 at 759 fps.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thanks for the replies.

I’m a member over on cast bullets. I’m not new to casting or using cast bullets. I just wanna talk about it.

I’m asking what alloys y’all like for 44 special, and by extension, what pressure you use it at.

I stopped casting when I moved into a boarding house down in Vero to go to work for Piper. Back when I did cast I also worked for aerospace shops and could order foundry metal at a discount. For .44 and .357 I used to prefer 1:10 for hard cast for target, 1:20 for lighter loads. 5-5-90 for hunting or 2-2-96 for .30 cal rifle rounds w/ gas checks. I’ve never really been a one-size-fits-all kind of person.

edit to add: there’s really not much you can’t do with 1:20. It’s about the best all-around alloy for bullet making.

 

[cfullgraf]

I’ll admit, I get a bit lazy trying to make a magic lead alloy for a cast bullet.

I’ve found if I have some hardening alloy in my lead and keep the velocity 1000 fps or less, I do not get any leading and accuracy is good.

This philosophy works well with low pressure rounds like 44 Special and 45 Colt.

When I want full power magnum loads, I use jacketed bullets.

I have admiration for the guys who make cast bullets work at magnum loads.

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

I usually cast pistol bullets with 30/1, especially for fun guns like the .44 special.
Sized .429 (for Colt SAAs) and .430 for Smiths. Good fit with nice smooth barrels.
I did go to 20/1 for 32-20 bullets in SAAs when I boosted the velocity a bit.

I would definitely slug the cylinders and barrel on a Ruger.
Hopefully Ruger has learned to make smoother barrels over the years.

Working with three different flat tops (back in the day) showed me Ruger did not
know how back then.
Jaysus, did those barrels grab lead.
LOTS of polishing time later (this was before those graduated barrel polish kits were sold)
the pistols would at least group mid range lead.

JT

 

[243winxb]

In a Lee 10 lb pot, wheel weignts & 2" of Rotometals Linotype.

 

[Bazoo]

Interesting responses. I run softer than most of y’all. I don’t run anything harder than ww+Sn normally. That alloy I get good results in 30-30 at full power, with 31141 gas checked bullets, and with plain based RCBS 38-150-swc bullets in full power 357 magnum.

When I had a 44 magnum, my only full power loads were with gas checked bullets made from wws.

 

[mdi]

Been casting for a while and had access to wheel weights so my most used alloy was WW. Started playing with alloying and wound up casting a lot of 44 cal. bullets with my "Mystery Metal", a mix of alloys to about 11 BHN. I use this alloy for 90% of my casting for 380 ACP up to 44 Magnum quite successfully. For some calibers I tried my Lyman #2 clone with a BHN of 15, 9mm and my rifle bullets. More important than hardness is bullet to gun fit, followed by a good lube...

 

[Bazoo]

My cylinder throats are all between .4315-.4325 (from memory, I wrote it down but ain’t near my book), and my bore is .4292. I’ve always just sized .431, but recently have loaded some .430 sized billets to try. It’ll be interesting to see if it makes any difference for me.

Larry Gibson over on the castboolit forum told me that he sized to .430 with throats .433+ and had fine results. Fine accuracy and minimal leading. I know that goes against what everyone else says. But I wonder if why everyone says size to throat diameter is only because they read it on a gun forum and not because they have tried it themselves.

Everyone references fryxells book From Ingot to Target, and it’s a good book. But it’s not an end all. No disrespect meant to Mr Fryxell. An example, He emphatically recommends using sawdust to flux. But I’ve tried various things including sawdust, and found beeswax to flux “best”. Best being determined by the way the alloy casts. After fluxing with sawdust it casts sluggish compared to beeswax. But from a metallurgical and chemical view, I’m sure sawdust checks all the boxes just like fryxell says it does.

Point is, there are some that use bullets not sized to cylinder throats with good success and then a legion of people that say it won’t work unless you size to throats. With each gun being a law unto itself, I think it’s worth exploring various sizes and various alloys too.

 

[dannyd]

On revolvers I personally always size to cylinder throats because after that it doesn't matter. I use a wooden paint stick to flux, works same a sawdust but without the mess. Sawdust and kitty litter are dangerous in Florida because of the humidity; the moisture it absorbs.

 

[243winxb]

Larry Gibson over on the castboolit forum told me that he sized to .430 with throats .433+ and had fine results.

As do I. I just went back and tested it. For many years, bullet diameter has been closer to groove diameter, then the throat.
The early Lyman manual, that I. learned from said size to groove diameter + a bit more. Equals. 430" diameter. Lyman #2 alloy or Hardball, BHN 15.

Test-

 

[243winxb]

Here are bullets that were oven heat treated, as a test. Should be very hard. No, I don't test BHN. Thumb nail test works for me.

What works, works. It's like voodoo.

 

[lightman]

I use straight clip on wheelweights. I have a good stock of them and they are still available where I'm at. I do have a 5 gallon bucket of WW ingots mixed with 2% tin that I will use, sooner or later.

 

[.38 Special]

I don't think alloy is super important, as long as the gun has proper dimensions and the bullet fits.

I personally prefer 1-16 tin-lead, but don't especially like paying for "virgin" metals. Most often, then, I am using straight wheelweight metal. Despite the fact that this stuff varies a bit from batch to batch, I never have trouble except when the zinc goblin shows up.

After decades of experimentation with various "Keith" molds, I have found Nirvana with Arsenal's "Hensley and Gibbs #503 clone". I have all my .44 throats - Special and Magnum - honed to .431, and order molds to drop at 432 and change. My sizer produces a finished product at just under .432, so I get my exact size with a minimum of distortion. I also have best results with a very soft lube, and have stocked up on LBT Blue Soft.

In the Special I use the Skeeter load extensively, generally producing 950 to 1000 fps. I expect the load to give very slight lead "frost" after the first few shots, after which the bore is "conditioned" and should show no further change. Any real leading tells me that something is wrong and needs to be fixed. (The same, by the way, is true of my .44 Magnums, which tend to run at 1200 to 1250 fps.)

 

[dannyd]

The hand cannon is .429 going to try it with 44 special at 100 yards this weekend hopefully.

 

[mdi]

I heard about bullet sizing to cylinder throats in about 1992-1995 and tried it. I have used this method every since. I don't recommend it because I read it somewhere, but because it works it is an excellent method to start developing a load. Some guns work well with slightly larger or a bit smaller bullet diameters, but in my 1, 9mm, 3, 38 Specials, 2, 357 Magnums, 4, 44 Magnums and one 45 Colt revolvers I size to cylinder throats and get excellent results, regardless of velocities.

 

[Crosshair]

I use wheel weights and water drop everything. No problems with leading even in 44 Magnum and 454 Casull. 357 Maximum I do due to the rate of twist my Barrel has. Rifle calibers I use gas checks too.

 

[ahutch71]

Sorry, late to the party. I am a huge fan of water dropped Hardball, which is 92-2-6, that I source from Rotometals. No leading issues in 44 Special with Skeeter loads (7.5gr Unique under a Lynam 429421). I am pretty diligent and careful about lubing (I pan lube with a mix of beeswax, paraffin, and a little STP for viscosity). I also like ~ 13.5gr of 2400 under the same pill - I load the 2400 loads by volume (1.0cc Lee dipper). All of these are through my 7.5" Blackhawk 44 Sp or one of my Super Blackhawks. I have a couple smaller (Charter) 44's that do NOT get to eat these, but they're fine in the Rugers and the barrel doesn't lead.

 

[Bazoo]

I appreciate the replies. I’ve been experimenting with different alloys in various calibers since I started casting a decade ago. I always come back to wheel weights plus tin. Seems to be a good balance.

I had some 95/2.5/2.5 and it was wonderful to cast. It filled out great and cast easy.

 

[joneb]

IMHO Ruger's cylinder throats are oversized which makes shooting lead bullets a PITA.

 

[BWS]

The lower the length to diameter ratio;

The softer I'm gonna run the alloy. 45ACP,and 44 mag is the largest diameters cast here for 50 years or so. WW's or range lead,water dropped works great. There's no replacement for testing what your rig has preference for. I realize a lot of handgunners aren't,or don't get that wound up about really buckling down on the bench searching for tack driving loads.

Some folks do though.

I believe at,up to serious magnum pressures,your handgun bullet's shape,diameter,and to a slightly lesser degree.... lube groove arrangement is more vital to acc than alloy. But even that observation isn't chiseled in granite. Just part of what makes handloading fun..... lots of ways to get'r done.

Been shooting mid level 44 mag loads lately in a mint '80's DW744. 1000-1100fps Blue Dot loads behind a well cast 429421.

 

[Bazoo]

@BWS I think you’re right about folks not testing enough to find what their gun really likes. Too many say “it shoots better than I do” and give up. Well, maybe the best loads shoot better than me, but I can shoot better than the worst loads.